ULK.Akiharu, worse than Ray?

[biohazard]

.. if you do not kick Akiharu out of your clan then you are in some ways vindicating his actions and confirming this statement as true ..

Thinking you're in a position to even suggest anything to us is arrogance as well ;p

Aki has been slaving for ULK since we came to VCMP. He's given us the forums, he's given us the site, he's given us a server (two). Maybe in the process he's deluded himself into thinking he's got more power than any other ULK, and it's understandable you share the delusion. If he's worked for a power grab all this time, he's worked for nothing.

Any ULK defending aki here is out of touch with reality as well. As I said, I knew what was going on, I didn't give a shit, and I still don't. Ya'll got fucked, and I understand that it's a terrible tragedy and an insult to you. I'm not trying to say what he did was right and moreover it's fucking pathetic he's trying to rhetoric his way out of this.

To be frank the further this angry discussion goes, his weaseling is the thing that annoys me personally most about all this.

The fact is ULK does not respond well to outsiders trying to  tell us what to do, and naturally any attempt by you trying to pressure us results in an aggressive response. And I'm pretty sure in the end if we weigh aki's work for ULK vs your poor security habits, the vote for kicking him will not pass. It might, since his weaseling is working against him as well, but I wouldn't bet on it

The point is, we can take care of our own affairs. You should learn your place and keep out of it.

[Windlord]

You dont know what you're talking about.

VU's forum had no vulnerability. Akiharu abused trust put on him as the previous host and acquired a few credentials in an illegal manner.

ULK is part of this whole ordeal due to idiots like you turning a blind eye to blatant criminal activities being carried out. Protecting akiharu in such an irrational manner would be accepting your part in said criminal activities.

Understood?

[biohazard]

You'll need to re-read my post.

I'm not protecting him. He stole the passwords, I believe that much is established. And I believe he should take the responsibility for his actions.

And while it's true legal theory does have a few instances where inaction could be considered a crime in itself, this is not one of them, sorry ;p. He acted of his own volition and will. We didn't ask him to get anything (well Sephiroth did for LW's, but as far as I know he's the only exception), nor did we help him in any way. And prior to this whole drama we (at lease me) had no idea about his methods.

So if you're so intent on arguing real life mechanics into this crime, you should do your homework. You can include the rest of us by your own morality, but not by real life legal theory.

[Windlord]

I don't remember mentioning any specific laws, do you? My only remote reference to any possible real-life laws was in declaring akiharu's actions to be illegal.

Despite your criticisms against akiharu, you fail to hide some of the brainwashing you've received, not limited to thinking that some fault lies in VU and Kontrium, as well as the fact that akiharu's petty contributions to ULK matter to anyone here.

Morality is the main standard and you're only displaying yourself and your clan in an increasingly bad light. If you think you can justify being a bystander, by all means do. You'll merely leave a bad taste in many VCMP players' mouths. Perhaps that means nothing to you, perhaps it does.

Edit: It's rather pathetic how the dealings of aki+ULK are becoming obsessed towards proving the inapplicability of real-life laws as well as pushing blame on the afflicted.

[Bass]

I didn't like XE anyways.

[FaF]

I wish windlord good luck in trying to make the deaf listen to the cool music 

[biohazard]

Oh no, you brought in the "IRL" guns here on the previous page of this thread, I hadn't referred to any of it beforehand. You're mistaking me for aki, who's referring to actual laws on the XE threads and I believe that to be equally pathetic.

The brainwashing? My thoughts are my own. I have not spoken to akiharu about this issue. I take very few people seriously enough to let them influence me, and Akiharu is not one of them. I am well aware most of the words he says is for effect only, rhetoric and manipulations.

Anyways I didn't bring up akiharu's contributions to ULK because they'd matter to anyone outside ULK. You need to apply your brain a bit, as Foxtrot suggested, and read my posts again. I brought it up because his contributions matter to ULK, and they will most certainly be taken into account when we're weighing his fate. I brought those contributions up in the process of trying to explain to you that we take care of our matters ourself and you guys believing you are in a position to pressure us in our internal matters is futile. I thought this much was obvious. I do hate repeating myself.

[Windlord]

Yes, I did forget about my 'IRL' post. (I was traveling and stuff, not that it matters.)
In that light, some of my criticism was ill-targeted.

I did understand what you were saying though and the 'brainwashing' I was referring to, you haven't responded to. Which clearly means you have nothing to say against them. To believe any blame lies on VU's side is being biased, in this case.

The akiharu contribution bit was mentioned to explain the difficulty of akiharu receiving disciplinary action, yes. However you are mentioning it because you feel it compares and possibly balances out. The morality in that comparison is highly questionable and anyone has the right to question that.

You also repeatedly say that no one can demand ULK to punish akiharu. This makes it seem like ULK is being a judge for the crime and that makes no sense. Disregarding aki's membership of ULK and leadership of XE being tied in with the ULK clan, VU members have the right to demand action, as the afflicted.

Also may I mention that we wouldn't have this discussion if akiharu simply accepted his crime and resigned from the various posts which he now does not deserve.

[Sephiroth]

I didn't like XE anyways.

How is this post relevant in any way, shape, or form?

[kyber7]

Seeing how some of the ULK members talk in this topic, I'm starting to think they are related to what Akiharu did...

[Skirmant]

I didn't like XE anyways.

How is this post relevant in any way, shape, or form?

We are boycotting XE as a protest against Aki. None ordered or suggested this, simply none (or little) of us seem to play it anymore because of principle
It's the least we can do to display our dissatisfaction with the management.

[Bass]

@ Sephiroth:

Quote from Cutton:
"I resign from XE, as does Thijn and jUan. I haven't spoken to others yet, but I'd imagine the rest of VU will resign too. I would not want to help in a server ran by Ray, so why would I help in a server ran by aki?"

You should read the first post again sephiroth.

[Charley]

.. if you do not kick Akiharu out of your clan then you are in some ways vindicating his actions and confirming this statement as true ..

Thinking you're in a position to even suggest anything to us is arrogance as well ;p

I don't quite see how putting forward basic logic could be seen as arrogant... but whatever.

The fact is ULK does not respond well to outsiders trying to  tell us what to do, and naturally any attempt by you trying to pressure us results in an aggressive response.

The point is, we can take care of our own affairs. You should learn your place and keep out of it.

you guys believing you are in a position to pressure us in our internal matters is futile.

So what, are we meant to just keep quiet and not share any opinions on the matter? Have you never heard of open criticism or diplomacy? We discuss these matters just as any media would an organisation that's done bad. If the media didn't openly expose and pressure wrong-doing individuals in organisations then the status quo would not likely by affected and those individuals would go unaccounted for. Use your brain, this is just natural criticism, speculation and pressure that would occur in exactly the same way had the case been the other way around. You can't honestly tell me that had one of our gang stolen a bunch of passwords from your site that we wouldn't have a tirade of abuse and pseudo-orders from some of your members. Knowing some of your members (Bishop) it would have been brought up in every single conversation, not matter how irrelevant, for a good few years.

You personally might be in a position where you know the facts and feel you can make a judgement by yourself, but there are others who don't. If we hadn't kept at this, Akiharu would have lied his way out and you and your gang would have been none the wiser.

Our influence lies in the fact that we believe gangs should care a modicum about their relations with other gangs. We are too small a mod to not care about such things. Again, you, personally, might not care about your relations with others but there are sure as hell a bunch of guys in your gang who do.

And I'm pretty sure in the end if we weigh aki's work for ULK vs your poor security habits, the vote for kicking him will not pass.

There was nothing wrong with our 'security habits', for what he did there is no protection against.

[Squida]

Well he said sorry so it's all good...

As Charley said if the roles were reversed and it was Thijn making an identical ULK login page (which by the way has no bearing on a websites security...) and logging account pw's and taking private information I can imagine quite a few ULK members would be upset. What course of action would you take? Firstly he'd be banned from ULK's forums, most likely have his XE administrator status taken (and probably banned) and he certainly wouldn't be in VU any more or have any part in their servers.

So has any of this happened with Akiharu? No, instead he's squirming around as if he's gotten away with some great heist and it looks pretty clear the only thing he's sorry about is being caught out. The fact that it seems a bunch of ULK members knew he had access to VU's forums doesn't help the cause since any action taken would be perceived as hypocritical on their part but doing nothing looks even worse from the outside.

Get rid of him, it might amaze you but we really don't care about his contributions to ULK after what he's done. VCMP will survive without him.

And before a swarm of ULK's come in here calling me buttmad and hater or something I didn't have a problem until he started trying to talk his way out of it and deceive others over what he actually did.

[UlrichZuko]

Hey when i allegedly hacked when i was in ULK, nobody was "dealing" or "discussing" with my situation, I left before i knew i would be kicked for sure.

And this quote from biohazard:

And I'm pretty sure in the end if we weigh aki's work for ULK vs your poor security habits, the vote for kicking him will not pass.

Reveals that they are not going to do anything about him after all.

I see a future with TLK.ex_hackerNub in it.

Now attack me as you see fit...oh you probably will say "you're not worth responding to, bla bla bla".
corrupt little children.
<omitted>.