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March 28, 2024, 12:57:38 pm

Author Topic: Gender violence  (Read 1637 times)

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Vedder

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Gender violence
« on: December 20, 2020, 06:32:18 pm »
Do you believe that this kind of men could ever change?
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Re: Gender violence
« Reply #1 on: December 20, 2020, 07:50:11 pm »
Every human is hypocrite in nature.
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ferrari32

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Re: Gender violence
« Reply #2 on: December 20, 2020, 08:26:20 pm »
Do you believe that this kind of men could ever change?

Read the topic name, read the post you made. You've literally commited gender violence in your question.
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Re: Gender violence
« Reply #3 on: December 20, 2020, 08:54:51 pm »
Topic name justifies the act done in the topic.
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Vedder

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Re: Gender violence
« Reply #4 on: December 20, 2020, 08:57:52 pm »
Do you believe that this kind of men could ever change?

Read the topic name, read the post you made. You've literally commited gender violence in your question.
Because everyday we see women abusing of men just because we live in a culture where women are considered superior.

Let me ask you something then, smart adult, so you can delight us with your excentric metaphores and release for us your powerful mind.

Why do you think that there's a phone line for women which suffer gender violence on almost any country and there's not one for men? Why do you think that 60% of definitions of 'gender violence' take into account more women than men?

https://eige.europa.eu/sites/default/files/gbv_infographic_final-1.jpg

Have you ever been raped? Have you ever experienced stalking? Have you ever experienced sexual harassment? Perhaps. No, not perhaps. I am pretty sure that none of these. But even if you had, do you think that 1 in 3, 1 in 5 or 1 in 10 happens with men as well as with women? No, it does not.

You can even search in Google, "statistics women killed by gender violence", and you will get plenty of those. But try to search for "statistics men killed by gender violence" and let's see how much you can get.

So if you think that I am being violent for just naming "men" instead of "people"; let me tell you that it's a completely fundamented generalization. And not, I am not violent for doing it. You can call violent people like you who try to dismiss any shit and mistake that our male gender has got since the world exists, trying to put us as equal, and using a 1 to 10 scale to say "it happens in both sides". Bullshit. I have not met a single man who has suffered any of those things in the photo. Gender violence refers in a 99% to women who suffer violence just for being women.

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Gender-based violence refers to any type of harm that is perpetrated against a person or group of people because of their factual or perceived sex, gender, sexual orientation and/or gender identity.
 

Gender-based violence is based on an imbalance of power and is carried out with the intention to humiliate and make a person or group of people feel inferior and/ or subordinate. This type of violence is deeply rooted in the social and cultural structures, norms and values that govern society, and is often perpetuated by a culture of denial and silence. Gender-based violence can happen in both the private and public spheres and it affects women disproportionately.

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Gender-based violence and violence against women are two terms that are often used interchangeably, as most violence against women is inflicted (by men) for gender-based reasons, and gender-based violence affects women disproportionately.

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1 out of every 6 American women has been the victim of an attempted or completed rape in her lifetime (14.8% completed, 2.8% attempted) About 3% of American men-- or 1 in 33-- have experienced an attempted or completed rape in their lifetime. While men are rape victims, men are almost always the perpetrator. That is not to say that all or even most men are violent, or that women cannot perpetrate such violence. Gender violence highlights a toxic masculinity patterned violence: a prevalent violence motivated by aggression, revenge, competition, and entitlement, and includes sexual and other violence against men, women, partners and children.

You literally search 'gender violence definition', and it refers you to 'violence against women definition'. Idiot.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2020, 09:53:40 pm by Vedder »
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Re: Gender violence
« Reply #5 on: December 20, 2020, 09:51:51 pm »
I'm sorry, who are you?
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Re: Gender violence
« Reply #6 on: December 20, 2020, 10:29:14 pm »
Interesting debate.
Never knew gender refers to females only.

And yes, its not a good thing to do gender violence.
In pak, we have reverse gender violence as well.
Wives beating the shit out of their husbands  >:D
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Charley

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Re: Gender violence
« Reply #7 on: December 21, 2020, 02:06:34 am »
Gotta disagree with you there Vedder. Ferrari is no idiot.

Gender-based violence against women indeed oustrips gender-based violence against men. That doesn't mean that gender-based violence against men isn't also a big issue, and certainly doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Take domestic violence as one issue. Various studies and surveys suggest that around one in three victims of domestic abuse are men in countries like the US and UK, but that they're much less likely to speak up about it and seek help. There's a huge stigma attached to men discussing issues like this; they're often labelled as weak, feminine, and generally not fitting the various stereotypes associated with masculinity. Alternately they're denied voices because the issue is seen by many (including you, clearly) as insignificant due to the much larger proportion of women who are victims of gender-based violence.

Ferrari's statement wasn't an 'eccentric metaphor', it was a clear application of logic.
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Vedder

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Re: Gender violence
« Reply #8 on: December 21, 2020, 05:05:10 am »
I did not mean to harm Ferrari's name by calling him an idiot. It was an impulse because I felt him like completely uninterested on trying to put an answer to the question (the reason for which the topic was made) and in any case, start a debate with another question, but he rather tried to make me look like a fool. Even more; I don't really believe that he is an idiot at all. It is just what he said made completely non-sense to me.

Going to the topic, I think that I have to be really stupid if I ever try to deny that there actually is violence against some men around the world. It is an undeniable fact.

But what made me go on nuts is the fact of calling me "violent" for asking about men in particular. It is not that I do not recognise that there is violence towards men in some occassions too, I do, and it's obvious. But my first question was aiming to: "There are abusive men (IN PROBABLY 80% OF THE CASES OF GENDER VIOLENCE) around the world who, with a particularly toxic masculinity, developed through the years with a chauvinist culture, abuse women just because they are women. Could these men ever change their attitudes? What do you think?"

I made a generalization, yes, because I consider numbers to be very important as well. People don't often talk so much about Vietnam war, in comparison to how they do with WWII. Because one was more deadly than the other one. Some people say yes, every war is tragic, but if you could stop one one of them, which one would you choose? The war which left the less amount of dead people. 80 million dead people is not equal to 5 million dead people. Both are urgent to treat and both are horrible, but it is absolutely normal for people to give more look at the first one. It highlights.

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Take domestic violence as one issue. Various studies and surveys suggest that around one in three victims of domestic abuse are men in countries like the US and UK, but that they're much less likely to speak up about it and seek help. There's a huge stigma attached to men discussing issues like this; they're often labelled as weak, feminine, and generally not fitting the various stereotypes associated with masculinity. Alternately they're denied voices because the issue is seen by many (including you, clearly) as insignificant due to the much larger proportion of women who are victims of gender-based violence.

It is not only seen as insignificant because of the 'much larger proportion of women who are victims of gender-based violence' by the way, it is actually seen like that because male gender consider funny the fact of a woman being violent against a man. Because these male people consider female so weak that they couldn't make any harm toward men. A toxic masculinity, again, developed by men in a chauvinist culture, that affect men themselves. And that's a fact.



« Last Edit: December 21, 2020, 05:06:43 am by Vedder »
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Re: Gender violence
« Reply #9 on: December 21, 2020, 12:02:41 pm »
I wasn't making an idiot out of you, I was pointing out the error in your topic name and your reply. If you wish to debate violence against women, sure thing. But given as you've called the topic gender violence, that includes men. As Charley stated, statistics nowadays are quite surprising about how many men live through domestic violence.

Moving on, Charley tells you about the said statistic, your reply to him is ''there's more women so of course I mean women'' and ''men themselves are guilty for the fact they're abused, because they see women as weak.

Now, I hate to tell you, but from my point of view, you tend to overgeneralize men, which is quite a passive aggresive behavior, and contributes to the stigma you're pointing out yourself.

Let's go deeper into the subject. With the replies you've made, I'm guessing you're trying to address rednecks who are masogynists, and generally consider themselves manly for that. Ok, great. What about male homosexuals? What about drag queens? What about simple lads who are just more feminine than most? What about men with social anxiety, what about men who are just afraid to speak up?

All of the latter have probably at some point lived through gender-based harrasment, but to you these guys aren't MEN, to you they're exceptions I guess. And then you speak about phone lines for gender-related violence for WOMEN. They are not for women, that is only your prejudice speaking. They are for ALL victims of domestic abuse, including MEN AND WOMEN. And for a good reason.

Now, to shed you of your hate talk directed towards me and the simple observation that I've made, I strive for equality, which is what most modern and intelligent individuals do. It is what thousands of years of evolution brought us to finally realize, that society cannot function as a patriarchy nor matriarchy, we strive for freedom of individuals, freedom means equality. And until young people like you and me both share the same opinion, and take incidents objectively and individually, that mission will never be accomplished.


There's an interesting social experiment made with the same topic. Basically, our psychologists staged a fight. First they had a man pretend to beat up a woman on the street. That same actor got beat up by around 10 people, before someone told them it's being filmed for a social experiment and research. Next day, they repeated the same, but turned the sides. The woman was brutally attacking a man. Not a single person, in a full bus stop, said anything, did or anything or intervened in any way.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2020, 12:09:16 pm by ferrari32 »
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Re: Gender violence
« Reply #10 on: December 21, 2020, 03:58:24 pm »
I'm not saying that men > women


but studies on gender equality show a bigger divide (see scandinavian country's). Meaning women are more likely to pursue the stay at home mom role, or work in female dominated jobs.

On topic; Awareness needs to be raised for both genders, also verbal abuse is a thing and shouldn't be taken lightly, and I can't prove this, but I'd say men fall victim to this more often than women.
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Re: Gender violence
« Reply #11 on: December 21, 2020, 09:26:57 pm »
Moving on, Charley tells you about the said statistic, your reply to him is ''there's more women so of course I mean women'' and ''men themselves are guilty for the fact they're abused, because they see women as weak.

Now, I hate to tell you, but from my point of view, you tend to overgeneralize men, which is quite a passive aggresive behavior, and contributes to the stigma you're pointing out yourself.

I do not condemn men who suffer abuse from women. They are victims as well as women who suffer abuse from men. I just pointed out as an additional detail, that they're victims of an oppression culture stablished by our gender, they are judged and humiliated by other men and women when they tell how they are abused, and that's purely because we live in a culture where women are considered weak. But if a woman does hit a man, that does not turn her into an innocent person and turns chauvinist culture into the only responsible agent. She is as violent as this culture. My intention was not to contribute to that stigma. We can discuss for hours if I do contribute to it or not (because of the importance that I give to numbers), but I can tell you that I do not deny that abuse from women to men exist. It does. I did not mean my generalization as an indirect statement of denial towards this fact.

Quote
Let's go deeper into the subject. With the replies you've made, I'm guessing you're trying to address rednecks who are masogynists, and generally consider themselves manly for that. Ok, great. What about male homosexuals? What about drag queens? What about simple lads who are just more feminine than most? What about men with social anxiety, what about men who are just afraid to speak up?

All of the latter have probably at some point lived through gender-based harrasment, but to you these guys aren't MEN, to you they're exceptions I guess. And then you speak about phone lines for gender-related violence for WOMEN. They are not for women, that is only your prejudice speaking. They are for ALL victims of domestic abuse, including MEN AND WOMEN. And for a good reason.

Yes, I understand what you say and I agree on the point of male homosexuals, drag queens and guys who are more feminine suffering abuse. The reason because I didn't address them either is for the fact of different considerations, opinions and perspectives of the kind of abuse that they suffer. People generally tend to agroup these into the gender-based violence, and other separe them and categorise them differently. I tend to go for the second option, and this is something that we can also debate for hours. The fundamentation of this is that, while they are part of an abusive behavior derivated from a chauvinist society as well as the cases we've been telling, they do not suffer abuse because of them being a particular gender: men or women, instead, because of how they are as persons particularly.

About the phone lines, atleast in my country, every official page says it attends to women victims of gender-based violence. This is not a prejudice of mine, I based what I posted on this:

Quote
Gobierno de la Ciudad de Buenos Aires

La Línea 144 brinda atención telefónica especializada a mujeres víctimas de violencia de género durante las 24 horas, los 365 días del año. Es anónima, gratuita y nacional.

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Ministry of Women, Gender and Diversity - República Argentina

Trabajamos por los derechos de las mujeres y diversidades, frente a toda forma de desigualdad y violencia, para construir una sociedad más justa con todos, todas y todes.

Llamá al 144
Comunicate vía WhatsApp
Brindamos atención, asesoramiento y contención para situaciones de violencias por motivos de género, las 24 horas, de manera gratuita y en todo el país.


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Now, to shed you of your hate talk directed towards me and the simple observation that I've made, I strive for equality, which is what most modern and intelligent individuals do. It is what thousands of years of evolution brought us to finally realize, that society cannot function as a patriarchy nor matriarchy, we strive for freedom of individuals, freedom means equality. And until young people like you and me both share the same opinion, and take incidents objectively and individually, that mission will never be accomplished.

I strive for freedom as well, considering individual freedom of a person above everything, and society cannot function as a patriarchy nor matriarchy, OK with that. I don't really know if we do, but we could differ on how actions should be done, what is the role of men in this long way going on the pursue of freedom, and about what is the best way to actually remove male chauvinism from society. Everybody nowadays say "these crazy feminist girls are fucking us all over the world", and blame women for their movements and agrupations with fierceness and it's an non-ending battle, not accepting for one second that we have done bad in the past. That is why I believe a feminism movement is needed in order to equal the balance. I am not part of it. I will never be part of it because I am a MAN too, but I consider that we should shut the fuck up and listen to them a little more because our gender has committed errors in the past (and some men keep doing), and stop treating them like bitches because of 'hating' men, instead, understand the reasons of that hate, and work together in order to accomplish what we both want: freedom.
Of course, while I consider neccessary the needing of a feminist movement and the needing of understanding their hate in order to solve it, I do not believe that what you posted on the example above was right. Of course not. It was completely out of mind that people did not react. That is not what should happen. The hate turning into violence. And then a new cycle continuing for another 2000 years...
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Re: Gender violence
« Reply #12 on: December 22, 2020, 09:23:20 am »
we only see what we want to see. if you've come up with a intention of degrading men and saying that women is innocent in every most of the cases, then you will not like to see other than that.

all this for 'can men ever change?'.

throughout all the generations men are considered strong and women are considered weak. (not in every  past/present civilization tho). so when you think you have finally realized how you can say men are to blamed?

in most of the cases woman look more naive than a man (it's a nature maybe). women has played a great role (if not in govermental positions) in causing troubles and chaos equal to the man. johnny depp's case is a pure example, having a great fanbase and whatever not  - the woman was still considered innocent until recently. because of her nature, johnny depp had to suffer and pay greater. if he had not fought back we would still consider him what amber heard did. why? because she is a woman?

most of the men are afraid to speak up for them because they will fear that people might bully them for being 'weak', even though they're suffering from women's side violence whether verbal. so you cannot imagine how many cases go un-reported.

i am neither saying men nor women are gearter to each other in any thing. they may never be equal but they're balanced in a method by law of nature.

freedom and equality is just a political thing. they use the word to gain power and fool out of you. you think they will strive to give you the best of freedom and equality while they're just disturbing with the balance themselves.
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Thomas

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Re: Gender violence
« Reply #13 on: December 22, 2020, 04:00:16 pm »
Wives beating the shit out of their husbands  >:D




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