Winter Event

[shakejunt]

We can possibly change the teams
For example VU can ally with MK or DZ <3 

[aXXo]

We can possibly change the teams
For example VU can ally with MK or DZ <3 

The probability of that happening is equal to probability of Las3r being accepted in VU 

[Skirmant]

The probability of that happening is equal to probability of Las3r being accepted in VU 

To be honest, I wouldn't be surprised if he did get re-accepted in a few years.

[SanDisk]

Talking about events, I cannot see orange massacre in option list.

[74zZ]

I guess the problem with Vice War is that DZ and MK won't compete... or will they?

hey there guys. like newk said about MK not taking part in vw the same goes for us,ofc anyplayer who from DZ can join individually.

good luck with the winter event.

cheers.

[Charley]

I guess the problem with Vice War is that DZ and MK won't compete... or will they?

ofc anyplayer who from DZ can join individually.

So no, MK wouldn't be joining this time, I can't speak for every single member of the clan as some might participate individually, but not the clan as a whole.

Actually they can't. The whole point of Vice War is to have team diplomacy, if any DZ members join then they must agree to join on the same team. So it is the clan leader's decision to say whether they are going to allow their clan to join or not; there are no gray areas.

So the choice, if we do hold the event, is whether to allow or prohibit your clan members from participating in an awesome event. If you prohibit them, then I dare say that they'll question why they're even in your clan. If you allow them but then say that you are not going to participate, then you are sponsoring a new clan within your clan - Why shouldn't they just go make their own?

I do not wish this to sound like blackmail, because that is not the intention, I'm merely pointing out that clans must do what is in their members' interests. If their members want to join an event specifically designed for clans, but the leaders prohibit them then surely it is not the right clan for them. It is at these decision making points in time when two things are revealed: 1) A clan's commitment to the enjoyment of the majority of the clan members - if the principles/motives behind the clan leadership are representative of the clan members' opinion; and 2) Clan members' commitment to a gang - Do they really agree with the clan principles? Can they follow a leadership team that doesn't stand for what they do?

Indeed, outside of the actual in-game presence/force, Vice War provides a test of clan cohesion that is essential to draw lines between our separate principles.

So sure, if you don't think your clan members want to play Vice War then please, do not sign up. But I think you should consider very deeply what is in your clan members' interests and not just in the leadership's ulterior motives.

[NewK]

It is at these decision making points in time when two things are revealed: 1) A clan's commitment to the enjoyment of the majority of the clan members - if the principles/motives behind the clan leadership are representative of the clan members' opinion; and 2) Clan members' commitment to a gang - Do they really agree with the clan principles? Can they follow a leadership team that doesn't stand for what they do?

You can't judge a whole clan's principles based on a single decision of wether the clan decides to join an event or not. There will be some clan members that will want to join the event, and there will be some that won't. And them being in a clan should not be a factor to decide wether they're allowed to participate in this event or not, their clan shouldn't restrict their actions because even though they are clan members, they are members of this comunity first. And we(MK) are not forcing them to participate or not to participate, we are letting them choose by themselves. So if we (MK) decided to join the event we would go against some members principles of not wanting to join and if we prohibit members from joining we would go against the principles of those who want to join and sure you can say there will be a majority and that's true, however we as a clan have in our best interest the satisfaction of all our members and we do this by letting them choose themselves. I'm sure when Squida(from Ka) joined this event he/she didn't ask for permission to Juppi first.

Despite this being an event focused on clans and like you said focused on team diplomacy and clan competition, individual players shouldn't be neglected and being competition one of the main points I believe having fun is too one of the main points, and it's not because some of MK's and DZ's members choose to participate indivudually that other players will enjoy this event less.

I do not wish this to sound like blackmail, because that is not the intention, I'm merely pointing out that clans must do what is in their members' interests. If their members want to join an event specifically designed for clans, but the leaders prohibit them then surely it is not the right clan for them.

We are doing what's in all of our members interests, not just the majority.
I wouldn't exactly call it blackmailing but basically you are setting up restrictions to the applicants, we are not prohibiting our members of anything, we, clan leaders are not the ones prohibiting our members of joining, you are.


PS: If anything I wrote sounded offensive or hostile, that is not my intention, I'm merely making my points, that's all.

[Charley]

I wouldn't exactly call it blackmailing but basically you are setting up restrictions to the applicants, we are not prohibiting our members of anything, we, clan leaders are not the ones prohibiting our members of joining, you are.

Indeed we are setting up restrictions, there is a point to this event and we wouldn't want to lose it. So the restrictions are in place, which puts the ball in your court. I am not prohibiting your members joining, as long as they join as a team. When Squida and Murdock joined, I insisted that they joined on the same team. Juppi was fine with this, because Ka aren't a clan war type gang. This showed the Ka principle that the leader would rather have a separate little group (allbeit just two people) manage their own entry, than participate himself. This was not detrimental to Ka in any way, the players in the clan know that they're not active in VC:MP but stay for other reasons. Like I said, clan members' loyalty despite holding some adverse principles.

So there are 3 decisions that DZ and MK could make here. 1) Allow nobody to play; 2) Become involved and allow the whole clan to play united; 3) Allow a group of your members to form a mini-clan within your clan, join and organise themselves.

The third option would probably be the best if you want to do what's in 'all' of your members' interests, instead of just the majority. You would be allowing players to play, instead of forcing them not to. However if that were hypothetically to go ahead it would beg the question; if the group who formed the mini-clan is bigger than the group who abstained and contained no clan leader, then why be in the big clan at all? Why not fracture off and make their own clan?

You can't judge a whole clan's principles based on a single decision of wether the clan decides to join an event or not.

Perhaps not all their principles, for example this event does not bare relevance to a clan's training scheme. However you can judge some key principles and other things; their willingness to get involved with the rest of the community, leadership cohesion and overall unity to name a few. The whole point of a clan is that it isn't just a bunch of individuals wearing the same t-shirt. Clans must take actions as a team, or they are completely 100% pointless. Need I remind anyone of the 'clans' in 2007/8 LWs?

Another question that you should really think about is why you aren't going to compete? Are you really that stubborn to let a few of the mishaps of the last event prevent you from competing? Also, is there any other way around the problems that you are seeing?

[aXXo]

We can organise a few international friendlies.
Like, Poland vs UK
Argentina vs Brazil
India vs Pakistan
Vietnam vs Russia

Just like VCCT, only difference is.... teams are sorted by nationalities.
Matches between neighbor countries will be better, as the lagger issue will be solved.
European matches are easy to organise, since there are lots of European hosts....there wont be any lagger on each team.
I think there are a few South American or US hosts, which can host a match that will let LBRs play without lag.
About the Indians.....erm...we...can...play with lag

Also, everyone loves games when it comes to international levels

[Crossfire|OutlawZ]

Vice City Country Tournaments?

[Knucis]

We can organise a few international friendlies.
Like, Poland vs UK
Argentina vs Brazil
India vs Pakistan
Vietnam vs Russia

Just like VCCT, only difference is.... teams are sorted by nationalities.
Matches between neighbor countries will be better, as the lagger issue will be solved.
European matches are easy to organise, since there are lots of European hosts....there wont be any lagger on each team.
I think there are a few South American or US hosts, which can host a match that will let LBRs play without lag.
About the Indians.....erm...we...can...play with lag

Also, everyone loves games when it comes to international levels

You know, this idea isn't bad at all.

[ferrari32]

We can organise a few international friendlies.
Like, Poland vs UK
Argentina vs Brazil
India vs Pakistan
Vietnam vs Russia

Just like VCCT, only difference is.... teams are sorted by nationalities.
Matches between neighbor countries will be better, as the lagger issue will be solved.
European matches are easy to organise, since there are lots of European hosts....there wont be any lagger on each team.
I think there are a few South American or US hosts, which can host a match that will let LBRs play without lag.
About the Indians.....erm...we...can...play with lag

Also, everyone loves games when it comes to international levels

And Croatia (only me) vs everyone
yaaaaaaaay

[koray]

And Croatia (only me) vs everyone
yaaaaaaaay

Turkey vs Croatia

Would better.Also it'll be red vs blue.

[ferrari32]

And Croatia (only me) vs everyone
yaaaaaaaay

Turkey vs Croatia

Would better.Also it'll be red vs blue.

It would go the same as in soccer 

[NewK]

However if that were hypothetically to go ahead it would beg the question; if the group who formed the mini-clan is bigger than the group who abstained and contained no clan leader, then why be in the big clan at all? Why not fracture off and make their own clan?

Well if that happens those members are free to make their choices.

Perhaps not all their principles, for example this event does not bare relevance to a clan's training scheme. However you can judge some key principles and other things; their willingness to get involved with the rest of the community, leadership cohesion and overall unity to name a few. The whole point of a clan is that it isn't just a bunch of individuals wearing the same t-shirt. Clans must take actions as a team, or they are completely 100% pointless. Need I remind anyone of the 'clans' in 2007/8 LWs?

Sorry but I don't fully agree with that. Clans should take actions as a team, yes, however they should also allow all their players to have a say in it,not just go with what the majority of the members agrees and ignore the minority. And if I could choose between the community we have today and the community we had back in 2007/8 I would choose the 2007/8 community without thinking twice. I never had more fun in vcmp than the time I started playing back in 0.3x.

-Is there more events and competition today compared to 2007/8 ? Yes, there is alot more events and competitions these days.

-Did I have more fun playing back in 2007/8 compared to today ? Yes, alot more. Why? Because despite the comunity not being obsseded about competition like it is today (which isn't exactly a bad thing) the community was more united, it was a small comunity(it still is) but everyone knew eachother and most people back then were able to put a coherent sentece together but above it all, it was mostly a group of people that wanted to have fun playing and because of that, things never had a tendency to get so serious and the community was alot more closer and united.


I'm sure there's players that also played in that time and have different views than mines, however I believe it's not worth to discuss it as it won't take us anywhere.

Another question that you should really think about is why you aren't going to compete? Are you really that stubborn to let a few of the mishaps of the last event prevent you from competing? Also, is there any other way around the problems that you are seeing?

I never said I wasn't going to compete because of what happened last VW, sorry if I somehow gave that impression. Sure I won't deny I didn't like how some things were handled last vice war, however I said want I wanted to say back then, so there's no need for me to go back to the same old matter once again.

The main reason why I'm not going to participate is because Im' pretty much inactive ingame these days. The last time I opened my game was just when the VU-MK CW happened, before that I hadn't played vcmp for weeks. And sure you sure you can ask: If im that inactive why did I joined HA's last event?
I joined that event because that event was supposed to be an LW reunion, which was "planned" back on LW's forum a couple weeks ago. An event where we would reunite with old LW players back from 2007/8. However not many members showed up as you can see in that topic.

Anyways, about the dilemma about individual players joining in:
Would this problem be solved if we requested our members to remove their tags while they're competing in the event? This seems to be the right thing to do as they would be participating individually/not representing their clan, so it seems correct that they would play without their clan tag as they would be participating individually. I also can't see how this option may disrupt or make it impossible for other players to enjoy the event in any way.