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Author Topic: XE  (Read 34711 times)

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mDz

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Re: XE
« Reply #30 on: March 23, 2016, 11:51:05 am »
Guys, make something new instead of bringing old stuff back. New and genius ideas are the key to success and coming up with something unique will sure bring you more players, not staff. ;)
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honor

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Re: XE
« Reply #31 on: March 24, 2016, 01:17:14 pm »
Most of you guys mistaken the point why this topic was made.

As title says too,This topic was merely made to maturely discuss the future of XE.Charley could have collabrated his own staff and made it's discussion if it was another plan,just out of "XE" tag.Talking about another plans are also off-topic in my opinion.Just talk about if it's needed to bring it back or it should be left where it is now.
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Charley

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Re: XE
« Reply #32 on: March 26, 2016, 06:41:38 pm »

Actually I wasn't aware that Aki is still active, I thought he had essentially abandoned VC:MP and XE. This does change things.

You are putting personal matters between you and him.Which is completely wrong and leads to nowhere but disagreement for this.

#strictlybussiness


I couldn't agree more. It's been years, and I have no interest in reviving any personal battles between Aki and I. So let's talk, strictly business.

Imagine that you help run a business, let's say a nightclub. You're responsible for DJing at the nightclub, and as part of a team you have a hand in running every other part of the business. While you are there DJing and helping run the place it is the most popular nightclub in town. Every night it is full of people enjoying themselves, dancing, drinking, 1v1ing, whatever. For some reason, you can't manage the nightclub anymore, you have to leave for a while, so the nightclub is left under the control of one of the other managers, a man with a dubious history, but nonetheless one who knows the nightclub very well indeed.

A couple of years after you left, you come back, and find that the nightclub is closed. Hmm, that's strange, how long has it been closed for? You wonder. You ask around a little, and find out that after you left, the nightclub started losing customers, the music started to suck, and eventually the whole place became so rundown that the management decided to shut it. A year ago, you hear, the management said that they were going to redecorate the nightclub, and with the help of a new DJ open again. How exciting! But it never happened. They had a 'taster' weekend, but when customers went in the speakers kept cutting out, and the music was crap.

Now I wonder, in this situation, would it be wise to try and revive the old nightclub, with the old manager, the one who ran the place into the ground, in control? If one man ran the nightclub so badly that all the customers left, and the nightclub had to close, would you trust him as a decent business partner?

#StrictlyBusiness

I personally want a diversity of gamemodes in VCMP, rather than plain old DM. It would be great if the intended efforts are put in:
- RPGDM with gang territories, inventories, treasury. This would be a really complex script but would stretch VCMP to it's limits.
- Two team Death Match like SvM or ViceLegends.

This is a very valid point, however, we have to understand the limits of the VC:MP community. EA has pretty much everything you mentioned and more. It is a server that has the backing of the official VC:MP dev team, it is synced up to the web, and really does everything many of us dreamed a VC:MP server would do. However, it has not taken off. The sad reality is that for a server to maintain a high playercount around here, it has to be simple. Most VC:MP players can't even speak English. In fact EA has that covered too, there's an option to run the game in a different language, and yet still nothing. It seems there's something in VC:MP players' psychology that will not allow for a server with dynamic, interesting features to be dominant, so we have to be realistic.

Quote
It will be a direct competition to EC which might result in a split player base. EC and XE are almost same as far as the gameplay is concerned. Both the servers will lack the epic clusterfuck massive wars if the player base is split. It would be nice if only one of those server exists. Since, EC is already established we should let it keep the prime position.

Yes indeed, splitting the playerbase would be a great shame. However, there are aspects of gameplay in XE that EC in its current setup just can't match, in my opinion. The clusterfuck massive wars seem to always be located downtown, usually around the bikers' bar, because of the spawnloc feature. By limiting spawn locations, XE allowed for the big battles to move locations. One day they may be at the bikers' bar, the next by the FBI HQ, the next at the army base, the next at Prawn Island.

EC is a fantastic server, in my point of view, with very dedicated and decent staff. But it is not XE.

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Xtreme Elites was originally a clan that has been non-existent in a decade. Why do you want to continue it's legacy?

Another good point, but it's not the clan's legacy that we want to continue, it's the server's. Like I said before, XE grew to be a brand, an ethos, and the number of people who never speak on this forum piping up or voting in this thread shows, I think, that it still carries a great deal of weight.

last but not least - XE. if both sides (team Charley and team Akiharu) do not come to a consensus on how to revive/initiate this project, then XE will follow ULK's footsteps and you'll have the choice of playing on either XE 1 (OFFICIAL SERVER UNTIL FURTHER NOTICE) and XE 2 (SINCE 2003 MORE OFFICIAL THAN OFFICIAL SERVER XE 1), that's my view on it anyway.

Haha, yes indeed that would be a sorry situation, and it is making me consider whether or not this is a good idea - something I still haven't really decided on. However, if Aki and George have had this long to open a new server, then why should we think that they will? This topic wouldn't exist if they had produced something, but in reality, they haven't, and there's no real signs that they will.

-----------------------

Having said all this, I'm still in two minds about whether this is a good idea or not. Drake is on-board for scripting, but we'd have to have a dedicated team of managing admins to do the rest. If there are still a lot of players who put their faith in the old XE, then this will not feasibly be possible. I'm not looking to struggle or to fight here, I'm looking for the community to bring back something many of us loved. There is support in this thread, but perhaps it's not enough.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2016, 06:43:50 pm by Charley »
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honor

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Re: XE
« Reply #33 on: March 26, 2016, 07:39:33 pm »

Now I wonder, in this situation, would it be wise to try and revive the old nightclub, with the old manager, the one who ran the place into the ground, in control? If one man ran the nightclub so badly that all the customers left, and the nightclub had to close, would you trust him as a decent business partner?
#StrictlyBusiness


Completely different situation than what we have currently.Let me point out.

Your resignment from staff was related to VU.You didnt risk of more revealing of private stuff.Not about managing the server.Plus after your resignment,server went still same for a couple of years.Despite the fact that we lost a fair amount of playercount.

Besides this,your resignment wasnt the only side effect for server to go downhill.

We have recieved DDOS es , dealt F1 Hacks and involvement of other ULK s.We can include George's slow going on process.This also led many of the staff members to resign.

You might be right about trusting or not after those events.But I see you guys are okay about a collabration.So why not?
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morphine

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Re: XE
« Reply #34 on: March 29, 2016, 09:13:55 am »
http://viceunderdogs.com/index.php?topic=6775.0

I think you're rushing this, regardless of the fact that the current XE management is not showing particular interest in engaging in a dialogue regarding the server.

I've said it once and I'll repeat it for those who, for one reason or another, have not managed to read it the first time:

Quote
last but not least - XE. if both sides (team Charley and team Akiharu) do not come to a consensus on how to revive/initiate this project, then XE will follow ULK's footsteps and you'll have the choice of playing on either XE 1 (OFFICIAL SERVER UNTIL FURTHER NOTICE) and XE 2 (SINCE 2003 MORE OFFICIAL THAN OFFICIAL SERVER XE 1), that's my view on it anyway.

a dispute regarding the rights for the server's name and whatnot will be lengthy and painstaking. I suggest you don't let it evolve into a dispute.

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honor

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Re: XE
« Reply #35 on: March 29, 2016, 02:55:24 pm »
Essentially we never had been asked before creating that Applications topic.We were still on a discussion.

Im not sure why aki doesnt come up here to talk about things related to this.Instead,he shows activity on XE forum.

We were trying to understand the true intention of Charley about how he's trying to help reviving it.But as aki thought,


Quote
That being said, one thing that needs to be addressed first is Charley's misunderstanding that he can "revive" XE without the involvement and agreement of the existing XE team. He is more than welcome to launch a brand new server (like he did with EA), just not under the XE name. This is an important issue and needs to be addressed first before we can even begin a conversation about collaboration.

Since this is the case,we will not apply to their servers.And it will not be under XE.Same for their upcoming forum.

Though,I will however try to talk to Charley himself
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KakaroT

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Re: XE
« Reply #36 on: March 29, 2016, 03:02:25 pm »
After ULK1 and ULK2, there gonna be XE1 and XE2  O0
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Dr.Shawn

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Re: XE
« Reply #37 on: March 29, 2016, 03:26:16 pm »
Essentially we never had been asked before creating that Applications topic.We were still on a discussion.

Im not sure why aki doesnt come up here to talk about things related to this.Instead,he shows activity on XE forum.

We were trying to understand the true intention of Charley about how he's trying to help reviving it.But as aki thought,


Quote
That being said, one thing that needs to be addressed first is Charley's misunderstanding that he can "revive" XE without the involvement and agreement of the existing XE team. He is more than welcome to launch a brand new server (like he did with EA), just not under the XE name. This is an important issue and needs to be addressed first before we can even begin a conversation about collaboration.

Since this is the case,we will not apply to their servers.And it will not be under XE.Same for their upcoming forum.

Though,I will however try to talk to Charley himself
Funny is how he calls himself XE's manager, dont want to allow the guys who are willing to restart which he stopped.
Nobody said that he's not welcomed here.
Honor, you are in XE's staff and hence you should know what the people want.
I believe you have seen your xe's forums.
In either way, there is nothing interesting about XE right now which attracts me.
After ULK1 and ULK2, there gonna be XE1 and XE2  O0
ok like if ULK1's XE(as you say) will ever come to life at this rate.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2016, 03:43:47 pm by Dr.Shawn »
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honor

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Re: XE
« Reply #38 on: March 29, 2016, 04:07:08 pm »
Funny is how he calls himself XE's manager, dont want to allow the guys who are willing to restart which he stopped.
Nobody said that he's not welcomed here.

Nobody intents to stop anyone.What Charley is doing right now,cannot be named as neither collabration nor helping "revive" the old XE.He's completely trying to open another server which uses old XE scripts with new forums ,new server and a new mamagement using XE name.

I dont get,what is wrong with involvement in current system?He's welcomed to involve in already.I should say that aki is not active enough nowadays compared to his old days.So Charley would still oversee anything and make decisions.I mean if thats the problem.

No matter how hated guy he was according to his actions in past,he was the guy who kept forums and server upand stood strong against all rough days with facing all insults and accepted them.

Its not that easy to give all the rights to one guy.But its easy to get involved in and help
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morphine

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Re: XE
« Reply #39 on: March 29, 2016, 05:58:03 pm »
Funny is how he calls himself XE's manager, dont want to allow the guys who are willing to restart which he stopped.
Nobody said that he's not welcomed here.

Nobody intents to stop anyone.What Charley is doing right now,cannot be named as neither collabration nor helping "revive" the old XE.He's completely trying to open another server which uses old XE scripts with new forums ,new server and a new mamagement using XE name.

I dont get,what is wrong with involvement in current system?He's welcomed to involve in already.I should say that aki is not active enough nowadays compared to his old days.So Charley would still oversee anything and make decisions.I mean if thats the problem.

No matter how hated guy he was according to his actions in past,he was the guy who kept forums and server upand stood strong against all rough days with facing all insults and accepted them.

Its not that easy to give all the rights to one guy.But its easy to get involved in and help

basically everything I wanted to write in my previous post but wasn't really bothered to.
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Charley

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Re: XE
« Reply #40 on: March 29, 2016, 06:28:27 pm »
Honor, his keeping the forum and server up was not an action supported by most of the community. What he did was not stand strong in the face of insults, he refused to relinquish control over something that had never been his to own. At one point he even demoted Sephiroth, someone who was supposed to be his equal, without asking anyone else.

Anyway, Aki may have changed, it has been years. However, if he really wants to help, he has to rebuild the trust between him and the community. But he can't do that from the top, he has to work his way up just like everyone else.

I'd be more than happy to give Aki or anyone from the old staff team a chance. In fact, if Aki were to apply to help out with the new server, I would take it as a sign that he really does care, and would make him a managing admin without question. Any of the old staff can apply, and they will be welcomed in. It is not an XE1 and XE2 scenario, because XE doesn't exist right now. It will just be XE.

The current system has proven itself not to work, so we're trying something new. We as a community are answering our own prayers for XE to be alive again, instead of waiting for one or two inactive people to do it.
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honor

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Re: XE
« Reply #41 on: March 29, 2016, 10:17:34 pm »
Actually , I 've tried to draw attentions of a point. I wanted people to focus on both you and aki with the posts i made.That helped alot to see what you actually think.Because everytime you made one of your traditionally "excessively long" posts,I felt they were lacking something.Unless this last one you made.

This was more personal focused and has more information about him from your point of view.

At the beggining of problems,I thought,if we hired a scripter and a manager,things would have gone smoothly and atlest the server would be online.

Surely it was not possible.Because all of the scripters were working for different kind of projects.As for the management,i have thought of a couple of names which i wont tell,but it was also not possible due the same reason i said for scripters.

While our current admins and moderators were discussing reviving of the server,George was teasing us with rare appearences.

aki said he can help the execution process,but rest was upto us.

Somehow George managed to release a private beta testing server.I can say we had alot of bugs in there.And wasnt actually the old XE that we expected.Community was willing the see the old XE.So we had it's discussion.


George said he started working on it ,Nothing happened since then.

Again somehow (which i still cant understand),we've seen Charley's post and this drew the most attention of aki.

Since he has rights of XE,this topic supposed to be reply-to-reply between Aki and Charley.A discussion from beggining to the point we are at.

Honestly,aki's silence in this thread frustrates me the most.Thats why I felt obligated and came up with question marks which also aki might have had.

As for myself,Im not trying to fight anyone here.All of the opinions of mine,are sincere and not to save anyone.My position in XE can be limited,but opinions are not.My self-trust is always full since I think im trying to do the right things.This means i have no fear of losing my level on this server.

If it's better for Community to do what Charley wants,so be it.But firstly we should read one more excessively long post from aki himself.
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aki

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Re: XE
« Reply #42 on: March 30, 2016, 01:28:13 am »
I apologize again for the delay in response, but once I've gathered my thoughts and we (XE staff team) have fully discussed the matter, I will post a response. I feel and hope that I have already made it clear that I am open to discussing a collaboration.

In the meantime, Charley, I would really appreciate it if you do not jump the gun here and cease everything you are doing with relation to XE, immediately. I am not sure if this is a simple misunderstanding, but you do not have the right to put up a server under the XE name. If you really need me to explain why, I will happily do so in my next post. While I do realize that that our scripting efforts have been slow and little progress has been announced publicly, XE is far from dead; we have taken XE offline, but our staff members are very much alive and we have not given up on XE. We readily admit that we need every bit of help we can get from the community so we certainly welcome the possibility of a collaboration. I am not entirely sure yet what a collaboration will look like, but I am hoping that this is something we can discuss. Thanks.
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Charley

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Re: XE
« Reply #43 on: March 30, 2016, 05:50:09 pm »
We readily admit that we need every bit of help we can get from the community so we certainly welcome the possibility of a collaboration. I am not entirely sure yet what a collaboration will look like, but I am hoping that this is something we can discuss. Thanks.

Thank you for finally posting Aki.

Here's the problem, I haven't seen nor heard of any valuable or significant dialogue between you and the community at all. The 'behind closed doors' approach has left everyone except for a select few completely in the dark regarding what's happening with XE. Instead of transparency and progress, it seems there have been false promises and neglect.

In my opinion, and in the opinion of the majority of the community it seems, XE has been left to flounder. It is only now that there is a prospect of an alternative, challenging the current command structure, that you have woken up and started engaging (albeit in a very limited way) with the community.

In the meantime, Charley, I would really appreciate it if you do not jump the gun here and cease everything you are doing with relation to XE, immediately.

I would love to pause and wait, but sadly it's not feasible. The only scripter available to convert the old script will only have a sizeable amount of free time for the next week or two, and after that his time will become less available. It's unfortunately a matter of circumstance that has driven us to progress this quickly.

you do not have the right to put up a server under the XE name.

The situation that we currently find ourselves in is very similar to the situation we found ourselves in when we transferred from an mIRC-based script to a squirrel-based script. Back then the server had pretty much died, and all of the management (including yourself) had essentially abandoned the server. After conversations between myself, Vinny, Tical and Venkat, it was decided that I would rewrite the server, and we would relaunch it together. All through this process you, Pront, SGB and even HeAD were absent. It was only once the server had picked up again that you came back. You remained as manager, because no one had any real reason to doubt your abilities, and because there was no obvious need for the command structure to be reshuffled. Everyone was just happy that XE was back.

This time, once again, we need to bypass the traditional management structure in order to revive the server that we know and love. It is pretty much a fact that you and George, even with the help of the other 5 active staff members, will not, cannot, on your own, revive XE. You have proven it over the last year or so. But, I would genuinely love for you, George, and the others to come on board with what I've proposed. As I said in my last post, I would give you a managing admin role without question. That way you would be equal with all the other 'managers' of the server, and also accountable to them. Accountability is something this server, as a community server, desperately needs.

When it all comes down to it, we want the same thing, Aki. We want to be able to play on the best server in VC:MP history again, and we want to be able to share it with everyone else who plays this game. I am taking steps that will allow us to do that. We need to forget about the idea of 'ownership' over the XE brand, and build this thing for everyone. To make it very clear: this server is not mine, and it's not yours. It's not just for me, it's not just for you.

This is progress, this is something to get excited about, not something to argue about. Just look at the list of people who have applied to be part of this, look at how many different clans they're from, how many different countries, how many different levels of experience they have with this game. It's fucking great! That's what this is about, man.
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aki

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Re: XE
« Reply #44 on: March 30, 2016, 07:48:52 pm »
Charley, I already mentioned that I appreciate your initiative and I welcome a real discussion on the matter. So far I have not agreed or disagreed to any of your suggestions; in fact, I think most of them are in the right direction. I have only asked for more time for the current XE team to come to a consensus on the matter and future direction of XE and I have multiple times re-emphasized my openness to a discussion on collaboration.

But for you to continue to believe that you have the right to move forward and put up a server under the XE name is truly disappointing. It shows not only that you have a fundamentally flawed understanding of how XE is managed and who has rights to XE, but also that you never wanted to have a proper discussion on the matter with the existing XE management / team to begin with. Please tell me I am wrong here.

I can only extend an olive branch so many times - please reconsider your decisions and let me know when you have halted your current activities and would like to have a genuine discussion about XE's future. I think there is a lot that we can do together and I am more open than you think about supporting your initiatives (including providing the relevant access, financial support, etc.), but we absolutely cannot move forward until you realize that creating a "new" XE while bypassing me and the current XE team is simply wrong.
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