Vice Underdogs
Discussion => Debating Board => Topic started by: Charley on January 20, 2017, 05:07:38 pm
-
Er ma gerd. Today's his inauguration. What does everyone think of this guy?
I could write literally thousands of words about my views on Trump, but instead I'd rather just mention one set that I have been thinking about today: British/European perceptions of the US.
There was a lot of disappointment in the UK when George W Bush was elected president. There was a general perception that this guy was dumb, arrogant and dangerous. He was seen as a privileged clown, and much of his presidency served to reinforce that view. This view extended to the American people in general. During my teenage years it was normal for everyone to consider Americans stupid, arrogant and simple. The president was seen as a reflection of the country and its people.
When Obama was elected that opinion started to change. He had huge approval ratings in the UK and Western Europe, everyone saw him as a sign that times were changing. Especially when compared against our leaders who were seen as ineffectual, lifeless, and belonging to a perrenially boring elitist political class, Obama was seen as a shining light of much needed humour, intelligence and resistance. He was seen to embody that which he so loudly proclaimed to provide: hope. Even his critics this side of the pond tended to situate their negative views not in relation to him as a person, but to the idea of the system as insurmountable, that his message was all marketing and affirmedly quixotic. He soon won most of us over, however, as he showed that even in the face of repeated Republican senate roadblocks he could genuinely deliver change. Once again, this view extended to America as a whole. Americans came to be seen as more progressive, astute, and intellectually discerning than before.
We all know how Trump is viewed in Western Europe. I read somewhere recently that in France and Germany he has close to a 90% disapproval rating. The interesting thing is, at least from what I've seen, people aren't seeing him as representative of America. I've heard no one suggest that America and its people are as stupid, racist, bigoted or regressive as Trump. Rather, the perception of the US that Trump has inspired in many of us is that it is a fundamentally divided country. It might be a result of my age that I was perhaps blind to the nuance in British perceptions of the US during the Bush and Obama administrations, but I truly think this is more or less the case. To many British people there is no longer an 'American people'. Just as we struggle with our own national identity following years of debate around multiculturalism and our international outlook, compounded by the Brexit vote last year, we see America increasingly as a precarious union, one in which there are enduring race, class, and political divisions.
Anyway that's enough from me. What do you guys/girls think of him? And what are the general feelings in your countries?
-
You just wrote an essay On "Trump" Btw I heard the Elections are Hacked by a person I just forgot the person's name. And we think this and I am against him BTw
-
I don't like Trump's personality, it's just two faced to me.
I have an inexperienced belief that the changes he plans to make based on the theme of "America first" are greedy and unnecessary but Stormeus or any American here would have to prove me wrong on that. Idk America's struggles like that but I just don't see America as a struggling country to warrant such a change, not saying he should ignore his own country for the benefit of others, but I just see this as the scaffholding necessary to create a bitter nation towards the world.
United they stand, together they fall.......not in economy, just in morality. Slowly but surely, selfishness breeds. That's what I think of Trump
-
Not really into politics but still what i feel about him?
(https://viceunderdogs.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FjQittsM.gif&hash=ca360a9b8c78e0139b6d6766db6162f65ffcd418)
-
i know only one thing Trump is not a liar like George Bush killed thousands lying to his own people about the chemical weapons in Iraq look at the wounded and soldiers of America George Bush should be punished
-
Americans are seen as dumb and selfish here as well. And though Obama is a cool guy, that opinion didn't change during his 2 mandates either.
And let's be honest, US education is a well known problem, ranging from their very school system to the actual ground they cover in class. Trump played his cards right, he knew there's a bunch of bigots and naturally dumb people in the country, and he gave them what they want. Hence, he is president.
It's a bit discouraging though that the modern world's pillar of democracy that is the United States, elected a racist, misogynistic whelp that isn't even much of a businessman, since his starting capital finances were estimated at 1 million dollars. Tell me, who the fuck can get a million dollars and not end up rich?
Anyways, what disturbs me most are his racial views. Recently saw video footage of him ordering his followers to throw out and beat up a black couple, including a child. What kind of president encourages domestic violence and unrest in his own country? Not a good one, for sure.
-
Indeed ferrari, I share all of your concerns.
I don't think that all Trump voters were bigots or racists though. Truth is there are huge swathes of the US population who have been left behind economically, failed by their state and its fundamentally neoliberal policies. Clinton promised more of the same, Trump promised change, change won. Unfortunately I don't think people understand quite how devastating that change might be.
-
Makes no sense altogether. We're poor so let's go elect a guy who wants to remove taxes for the wealthy and increase for the mid society layer
-
I don't care about him and I have no idea why people outside usa cares about him. Maybe they have no their own sovereignty politics. Politics for the people is a crap anyway.
-
I don't care about him and I have no idea why people outside usa cares about him. Maybe they have no their own sovereignty politics. Politics for the people is a crap anyway.
We care, cause most of our third world countries depend on such a high level on the US economy. Every little detail that goes on within the United States of America someway or another finds to bring us down. 2016 was expected to close with a flow of remittances exceeding the four billion dollars mark. This makes it a huge part(for Honduras) of our GDP. Just 2 years back 13.5% of our population was living ONLY of those remittances, thats pretty huge number of people that can easily be with no food for a very long time. And this is only economicly speaking.
I think Trump and the republicans played their cards right, Hilary and the democrats did not do so as they were expected. People like that Trump spoke his mind, they liked that he was not a politician, they saw an oportunity of growth. He might not be brilliant but trust me he has plenty of money to get his way around and get plenty of political advise. He took advantage of the nations selfishness, the majority of the people voted by color, because those beliefs where passed down between families for ages. I don't blame Obama for seeing Hope in the American society. Truth is, they're not so pacifist, caring and selfless. He just flipped the switch. People that actually reside in the United States would have a better perception. That is just what we see from the outside, being more humanistic and liberal. Its going to be interesting what's going to happen to Social Security after Obamacare goes obsolete.
-
We care, cause most of our third world countries depend on such a high level on the US economy. Every little detail that goes on within the United States of America someway or another finds to bring us down.
Honduras
It means your country have no sovereignty. No independent economy. Any normal person being under this economic occupation will rate USA as their enemy. And asslicking USA's leaders (obama/trump or anybody else) it is just disrespecting your own nation. You need to care how to make your country independent first. Not about benefits from usa.
-
i know only one thing Trump is not a liar like George Bush killed thousands lying to his own people about the chemical weapons in Iraq look at the wounded and soldiers of America George Bush should be punished
i agree with all this 100000%
you forgot to mention one last thing
Trump secretly funds NYB
Oh shit, gotta run :P
-
We care, cause most of our third world countries depend on such a high level on the US economy. Every little detail that goes on within the United States of America someway or another finds to bring us down.
Honduras
It means your country have no sovereignty. No independent economy. Any normal person being under this economic occupation will rate USA as their enemy. And asslicking USA's leaders (obama/trump or anybody else) it is just disrespecting your own nation. You need to care how to make your country independent first. Not about benefits from usa.
No matter what, I agree with this statement ^
-
We care, cause most of our third world countries depend on such a high level on the US economy. Every little detail that goes on within the United States of America someway or another finds to bring us down.
Honduras
It means your country have no sovereignty. No independent economy. Any normal person being under this economic occupation will rate USA as their enemy. And asslicking USA's leaders (obama/trump or anybody else) it is just disrespecting your own nation. You need to care how to make your country independent first. Not about benefits from usa.
Hello, Earth calling. From this statement it's very easy to conclude that you haven't the slightest clue about politics or economy. Bluntly speaking, a smaller country imperatively needs to lick the balls of a bigger country in order to make a positive economical push and progress. It's been that way since the middle ages, you know, when your bullshit state was swimming in Lithuania's ass begging for loans
-
Bluntly speaking, a smaller country imperatively needs to lick the balls of a bigger country in order to make a positive economical push and progress.
It depends on self-respecting. If you are gay you always will find a reason to lick someone's balls. If you respect your country you won't accept domination of other country on your country.
your bullshit state was swimming in Lithuania's ass begging for loans
Nice level of conversation. Lithuania also was a part of russian empire and soviet union, but no idea why you bring that country.
-
Bluntly speaking, a smaller country imperatively needs to lick the balls of a bigger country in order to make a positive economical push and progress.
It depends on self-respecting. If you are gay you always will find a reason to lick someone's balls. If you respect your country you won't accept domination of other country on your country.
your bullshit state was swimming in Lithuania's ass begging for loans
Nice level of conversation. Lithuania also was a part of russian empire and soviet union, but no idea why you bring that country.
You do realize Russia was originally a part of Lithuania right? lmao
And no, Vito, it's not about self respect. It's about economy and possibilities. But I don't think you can understand anything about that, as you're a right winged nationalist kid who doesn't even realize what actual nationalism is. I've seen plenty of those like you.
Tell me Vito, how do you create an independent economy, when you have no resources nor support to draw from? You don't, you enter the free democratic market and seek a sponsor to aid your expenses, creating a 200-300 year plan that leads to developing a stand-alone, independent economy and market. And that's a big if.
-
a smaller country imperatively needs to lick the balls of a bigger country in order to make a positive economical push and progress.
*vito's voyage through vcmp*
-
You do realize Russia was originally a part of Lithuania right? lmao
Lol. Why not a part of Ukraine then? xD I am sure it's your are from western europe because nobody else is trying to create origin of big russia from their small countries. Nobody, excluding western europe. Actually I don't interesting about your mythology so I just skip this point.
But I don't think you can understand anything about that, as you're a right winged nationalist kid who doesn't even realize what actual nationalism is. I've seen plenty of those like you.
Is it polite way to insult me as 'stupid kid nationalist'? Try to be more clear in your summing. Don't hide your true colors.
Tell me Vito, how do you create an independent economy, when you have no resources nor support to draw from?
You don't, you enter the free democratic market and seek a sponsor
If you will look at the history of powerful countries you will able to note "democratic market" were created by wars as well as resources were taken. If you really believe in idols of freedom/democratic then you are living in virtual world of USA's media to keep you as a client of USA.
a smaller country imperatively needs to lick the balls of a bigger country in order to make a positive economical push and progress.
*vito's voyage through vcmp*
Cool insinuation, but actually I did an "economical push and progress" for that server you calling *vcmp*. And I got a good feedback to see how you corrupt. So actually yes, it's positive.
-
I know very well how USA was formed, vito. Apparently you don't.
The only reason their revolution managed to go successfully is the distance the Brits had to cover to even get to them. The british weren't getting any tax efficiency from them, spent loads of money just on troop transport, half their supplies being either depleted or destroyed by pirate skirmishes on the way over, effectively making the war useless and a waste of both effort and resources.
Now then, Vito the economist, tell me, how does a country like say Honduras as King already gave that example, single handedly create an economy that suits all the needs of its market? I assure you, if you can answer that question, you might as well become prime minister of your country.
The answer is you can't. The reason is very simple. You need to have a good starting capital and infrastructure to build upon, and if you don't have those, you need to create them. The process of creating a successfull economical strategy takes approximately 20 years to even create a slight effect. And suggesting that a country should go to war to proclaim its economical dominancy is both wrong in practice, and in ethics.
True, that system was existent in Medieval times, where a country when facing economical inefficiency had 2 options, going to war or increasing taxes. But that system is now non existent, and economical ground is gained through researching the market, strategizing and applying the least risky business option.
The most obvious example of all, is of course, Switzerland.
-
The only reason their revolution managed to go successfully is the distance the Brits
usa is powerful not because that war of independence lol.
I don't think you can understand anything about that
doesn't even realize
I know very well how USA was formed, vito. Apparently you don't.
You're boring in playing in "knowledge" of your usa idols.
Honduras as King already gave that example, single handedly create an economy that suits all the needs of its market?
The answer is you can't. The reason is very simple. You need to have a good starting capital and infrastructure to build upon, and if you don't have those, you need to create them. The process of creating a successfull economical strategy takes approximately 20 years to even create a slight effect.
Why 20 years not 200? or 2 000 000? Honduras won't be such successful as germany for example even being under USA's credits. It won't help anyway. As western europe wasn't successful even after death of USSR. There is no way to be rich for everybody to make each country *developed*.
in ethics
Medieval times
lole. Nothing changed here from medieval times. Countries gets *liberated* from 'bad people' (terrorist, dictators) via 'good people' (who will get % of their oil and alot of contracts). Maybe only one - serfs now living in cities and they thinks they are free.
The most obvious example of all, is of course, Switzerland.
This is most non-typical example.
-
Man wtf are you even talking about? I'm talking about economy, not starting an october revolution
-
I don't care about him and I have no idea why people outside usa cares about him. Maybe they have no their own sovereignty politics. Politics for the people is a crap anyway.
I am sorry but if he extends the stay of U.S forces in Afghanistan or tries to do anything against my homeland, called Pakistan, I'd protest everywhere. U.S has a history of arming the rebels in the Middle East and Afghanistan as well. These dumbfucks then proceed to kill innocents in both countries (75,000 casualties in Pakistan in the last 15 years and damages worth $100B).
Take Tehrik e Taliban Pakistan (TTP) for example. They were heavily funded (from an "unknown" source), declared everyone living in Pakistan as "murtad" ( the extreme form of "infidels") and started killing left & right. IN the past two years, Pak army launched a military movement known as "Zarb e Azab" and killed thousands of these fuckers and guess what, rest of them are hiding in Afghanistan as of now.
Take the Iraq War for example, after killing 1.5 million innocent Muslims and destroying everything in their way, U.S simply issued an "apology" that no weapons of mass destruction were found as the presumed and they were wrong about it. How easy it is for them to say "sorry" in a press conference meanwhile they fucked up entire countries.
So yes, when a country has a history of interfering in foreign lands, destroying them by "mistake", it does matters who rules the country. This is why everyone else is concerned. You are too immature for international politics vito, I am surprised.
-
The topic was originally about Trump and it became history class. Just for the record, you're expecting a corrupt third world nation to build an independant economy on what really? Comparing it to Germany is pretty useless.
Don't think is about self-respect, politicians here don't care about their country they care about getting money. Changes you suggest Vito will take hundreds of year, or top-knotch education, of creating a place where kids who are just recent born are not already in debt, a place where people don't chopose the easy way out of the criminal/drug world. That's all business, the leaders won't change cause if they keep a society like this, the benefit is totally theirs its just not convenient.
You won't understand anything about that though, because you don't live in that enviornment.
ANYWAYYYYYYS TRUMP IS ASS. HE GOT STUNNERED.
-
President Trump is unpredictable and a beacon of change for the American people. Those are two core points that distinguish him from Hillary Clinton, and two core points that have won my curiosity. I am definitely expecting great things from him.
You do realize Russia was originally a part of Lithuania right? lmao
I'm Lithuanian and I find this hysterically hilarious. Your evidence?
-
(https://viceunderdogs.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.euratlas.net%2Fhistory%2Feurope%2F1400%2Fentity_2750.jpg&hash=35ae05d0758aa86b7823b524195eab8ca9ce5a7c)
-
what part of history is this? sorry me 2 stupid
-
what part of history is this? sorry me 2 stupid
me 2 tbh
-
Man wtf are you even talking about? I'm talking about economy, not starting an october revolution
Economy is based on power, welcome to real world.
Don't think is about self-respect, politicians here don't care about their country they care about getting money.
Do you think someone else will make a government for you? Obama?
I am sorry but if he extends the stay of U.S forces in Afghanistan or tries to do anything against my homeland, called Pakistan, I'd protest everywhere. U.S has a history of arming the rebels in the Middle East and Afghanistan as well.
...
Taliban Pakistan -> killing left & right.
military movement known as "Zarb e Azab" -> killed thousands of these fuckers
...
You are too immature for international politics vito, I am surprised.
Prays to american idols of democracy and 'free economy' it's not a matureness. Talking about obama/trump is not 'international politics'. It's just people of their system. System of raping you. Being mature means ability to detect who is your enemy. You people killing each other instead being together against USA. Very mature international politics. (of USA)
-
what part of history is this? sorry me 2 stupid
me 2 tbh
europe in 1400 ad
-
System of raping you.
All those who rebelled against this system were declared terrorists, perhaps there's no easy escape.
-
Man wtf are you even talking about? I'm talking about economy, not starting an october revolution
Economy is based on power, welcome to real world.
Don't think is about self-respect, politicians here don't care about their country they care about getting money.
Do you think someone else will make a government for you? Obama?
I am sorry but if he extends the stay of U.S forces in Afghanistan or tries to do anything against my homeland, called Pakistan, I'd protest everywhere. U.S has a history of arming the rebels in the Middle East and Afghanistan as well.
...
Taliban Pakistan -> killing left & right.
military movement known as "Zarb e Azab" -> killed thousands of these fuckers
...
You are too immature for international politics vito, I am surprised.
Prays to american idols of democracy and 'free economy' it's not a matureness. Talking about obama/trump is not 'international politics'. It's just people of their system. System of raping you. Being mature means ability to detect who is your enemy. You people killing each other instead being together against USA. Very mature international politics. (of USA)
Man wtf are you even talking about? I'm talking about economy, not starting an october revolution
Economy is based on power, welcome to real world.
Don't think is about self-respect, politicians here don't care about their country they care about getting money.
Do you think someone else will make a government for you? Obama?
I am sorry but if he extends the stay of U.S forces in Afghanistan or tries to do anything against my homeland, called Pakistan, I'd protest everywhere. U.S has a history of arming the rebels in the Middle East and Afghanistan as well.
...
Taliban Pakistan -> killing left & right.
military movement known as "Zarb e Azab" -> killed thousands of these fuckers
...
You are too immature for international politics vito, I am surprised.
Prays to american idols of democracy and 'free economy' it's not a matureness. Talking about obama/trump is not 'international politics'. It's just people of their system. System of raping you. Being mature means ability to detect who is your enemy. You people killing each other instead being together against USA. Very mature international politics. (of USA)
Hello mf, welcome to sanity. We don't want war. Not with USA, Russia, ISIS, anyone. The normal world wants peace.
-
All those who rebelled against this system were declared terrorists, perhaps there's no easy escape.
Of course they were, people who explode nazis in WW2 were terrorists (for nazi view) too. It's word to mark people who against the system. And as you can see it's works to PR. Nowdays Third Reich is USA.
Hello mf
What the point to insult me for you?
We don't want war. Not with USA, Russia, ISIS, anyone. The normal world wants peace.
Nobody will ask people what they wants. Politics just brainwash them and they will do everything.
-
Here in Slovenia the people are happier than Americans themselves because the wife came from Slovenia. They've got my condolences, though.
-
I feel like taking a nap, can we talk later ?
-
trumpoid > clintoid sry
-
http://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/1/27/14370594/donald-trump-policies-accomplishments-achievements
imo, he's a ray of hope for the USA.
-
Fuck trump he banned muslims and Mexicans and all emmigrants.
now I cant go to the United fucking states xd
-
trumpoid > clintoid sry
Europe > all
sry
-
Europe > all
sry
Don't remind me :'( :'( ;D
-
Fuck trump he banned muslims and Mexicans and all emmigrants.
now I cant go to the United fucking states xd
This isnt a muslim ban. He or his government decided to apply a travel ban to the citizens of 7 muslim countries for 90 days and keep immigrant applications on hold for 120 days. This can be understandable. America is a country of immigrants and its a serious treat. Remember what happened in Orlando. Wish Turkish government did the same. I personally dont want to see Syrians in my country, for example.
-
I believe this is the first time in a long time that people are getting their knickers in a twist because of a president actually executing the promises he gave in his campaign.
Quite retarded when I personally think of it that way.
-
Full HD 4K yes
(https://viceunderdogs.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sinembargo.mx%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2016%2F11%2Ftrump-22.jpg&hash=ce6dfeb41f03cff75093d5622755636bd459ee0a)
-
(https://i.imgflip.com/1jtql1.jpg)
-
Trump sux. The end.