Vice Underdogs

Discussion => VC:MP General => Topic started by: Charley on July 31, 2020, 03:11:56 am

Title: Idea to save VC:MP
Post by: Charley on July 31, 2020, 03:11:56 am
Problem

There is apparently a dwindling playercount in the mod.

Cause

You might say that it's because Vice City is an old-ass game, and VC:MP is outdated or buggy. Or that we have outdated gamemodes. Fine, but that's always been the case. People have been making that same argument since the day that VC:MP was born.

Take a look at the official VC:MP forum. This is the first point of contact for anyone new to the mod. It is a graveyard. It's a boring, semi-forgotten wasteland of half-literate randomers. I put it to you that this is the main problem.

If you searched 'Vice City Multiplayer' on Google, and found that forum, would you be interested to explore the mod and its community? Fuck no.

The biggest draw of the mod is its community, but for potential new players, the community is barely visible.

Problem 2

The VC:MP forum is dead.

Cause

The developers kept the official forum under lock and key from the community. In what other platform do the product developers have control over the product, but also 100% control and responsibility over the marketing, PR and community management around the product? None. Why? Because they're product developers.

My assumption is that the devs hoped to be impartial towards the community, to give the community a game to play, but prevent any individuals or groups from monopolizing or regulating access to that game. That is a laudible, but incomplete approach. For it to work, they would need to find another way to stimulate balanced community activity. Just making boards on a forum and allowing people to post is evidently not enough.

Solution

Create a community management team.

The community management team should be responsible for representing the official voice of VC:MP. They can endorse events, partner with other event organisers, and also coordinate and create official VC:MP events. They are responsible for keeping the official forum interesting and active, engaging every segment of the community - not just those which are dominant.

I would suggest the following leadership structure:

Quote

Community Admins
These are normal Community Managers, but with a bit more responsibility. They have full access to moderate the forum, create and modify boards and categories, create and set membergroups, and administrate users; they're responsible for settling any disputes or deadlocks among community managers; they're responsible for creating and maintaining an official VC:MP ethos. They have the same voting power as the Community Managers.

Community Managers

Permanent (unless voted out) members of the community responsible for creating official events, endorsing partner events, driving activity on the official forum.

Community Leaders

Temporary leaders who are brought in to help manage particular events or campaigns. E.g. There might be an official VC:MP Ladder event, and the community managers want some people to help manage it, so they bring on temporary Community Leaders.

Who?

The initial batch of Community Managers can be partially appointed, and partially voted in. It would have to be in discussion with Stormeus or Maxorator. Here is my suggestion for the appointees:

Quote

Community Admins
Morphine
Thijn
Charley
Klaus

Community Managers
aXXo
Krys
AngelofDeath
Aaron
Siezer
Wilson
jah (just kidding)
Gangstrag
Sevrin
Halchter
FaF
Xmair


How?

The only way for this to happen is to convince the developers that this is a good idea.

Vote agree on this post to voice your support, and anyone who has access to Stormeus or Maxorator, get this in front of their faces.

After 12 years of witnessing people complain about inactivity in VC:MP, I think it is time that take this issue into our own hands.
Title: Re: Idea to save VC:MP
Post by: Niko on July 31, 2020, 03:47:05 am
I'm up with you, VC:MP needs more propaganda for start to seen the community growing up like old times, one way for this and the most useful it's start to share and make videos for YouTube, for example, I moved on to another games or different platforms and when I mention vcmp they didn't know about his existence, and how works the gaming world today I would like to see the people making videos related to VC:MP just for advertising, It's an excelent idea from my side.
Title: Re: Idea to save VC:MP
Post by: Sean on July 31, 2020, 04:04:04 am
I was thinking of making a post about this topic, but it's good you made it now it'll basically have more reach  :P. It is true VCMP is losing playercount with time, and yes it is also true VU forums feel more happening than VCMP forums, but that's just how it has been for the past idk how many years. While the idea suggested is actually pretty helpful keeping the current playercount more interested, I hardly see it increasing the number of players in the community (it still is a pretty decent idea tho). There will always be a set of players hating on the current team (I ain't taking any names) and iscolating them and stuff.

I believe proper advertisement of VCMP could bring a change. Since Vice City is considered to be one of those nostalgic games, it has lovers all around the globe, but they're just not aware that something like VCMP exists. I've seen people in facebook groups be shocked when they find out multiplayer version of a game from 2003 exists and still has a playerbase.

I'll put in an example. [EAF]Han (and several other Argonath RPG players) create youtube videos (https://m.youtube.com/user/43nrique) of fun VCMP gameplays, and I tell you there have been several instamces where a player joins Argonath RPG being all, "hey I saw this on youtube, where's Han?" and stuff like this. There are plenty of people out there who'd stay here forever if they find out it exists. We just have to find those people.

VCMP is a unique game which has several interesting gamemodes. Gamemodes like A/D and CTF have capabilities to be a root of very huge competitive events. While on the other hand its RPG gamemodes can help keep players in for several other reasons.

In short, what I believe is we need a marketting strategy. Make proper fun entertaining videos of major events be it VCDC or EAD Championships. We as a community must support one another instead of forming sub groups within it and fighting each other. VCMP is a small community of less than 600 (including those who are active in forums). We need to support each other. See someone's youtube channel about VCMP? Support it! Notice an event? Spread its reach! Just help the community with what you can. There are currebtly two on going events (VCDC and EAD Champ'4) and they both are pretty fun to watch. Stream/record the matches and spread it! I personally got interested in VCMP when I saw a VCCT A/D match of ULK vs TLN in youtube, and I was like I want to do this. I fell in love with A/D gamemode right when I saw the video, and I tell you it wasn't even good quality in that version of VCMP. There are many talented lads who can do much better recordings (Han (https://m.youtube.com/user/43nrique), Hype (https://m.youtube.com/user/BullshitWorshipper), iliasser (https://m.youtube.com/user/iliasserable) and many more!). Just watch this video (https://youtu.be/qwSytn_UGyk) and think, who'd not get entertained ny something like this?

Support the members of the community and that'll help ensure the community's long life.
Title: Re: Idea to save VC:MP
Post by: ripmemes on July 31, 2020, 04:27:31 am
there needs to be something new and catchy. a new update.

i dont know why stormeus is working on this all alone, he barely can keep up and we cant blame him,

he must recruit other developers to work on it.

one of the main causes for the playercount waning is the strict administration of VCMP.
literally gangstaras alone banned 100 players off one of the servers he administered. ( permanently )

ban times are too long, people get cocky when you get banned, and sometimes you get banned because you said something admins dont like, ( example: ferrari called kessu a "dictator" once, got permanently banned,  cheaters in ead get banned for lifetime with no chance to get unban) they lose interest.

imagine how many newbie players quit vcmp when they find they were banned for a month for something as silly as deathevading.

admins are sometimes careless, ( example: Weldone got banned for something someone else with a similar nickname did, only to be unbanned 3 months later and at admins's realisation that it was a wrongful ban )

in SAMP hackers get banned for no more than 120 minutes, and their servers filled with players up to 600 at the same time!



Title: Re: Idea to save VC:MP
Post by: Charley on July 31, 2020, 04:33:06 am
-

Agreed! More promo would be awesome. This can also be something that the Community Managers embolden. E.g. making an improved 'VC:MP Videos' community board with competitions and features. Also working with prominent videographers & marketers to make advertising campaigns for the mod. All your ideas would be bolstered if they were coordinated with official endorsement.

-

This is not something that can be centrally managed. That's for the community to work out itself.
Title: Re: Idea to save VC:MP
Post by: Sezar on July 31, 2020, 05:35:57 am
Opinion from a fellow community player

1.Newbies are more attracted to games like CSGO, GTA V, TC:RSS or Valorant. Why? Because of enhanced graphics and not-so-outdated bugs and maybe these are latest games. VCMP might have been a big thing back in 2010s (maybe) because it was latest. This is what 'time' is you can't do anything about.

2.Community's experienced or atleast players who knows how clan or vcmp works. They are like "You have your clan mate or good friend? Okay, don't interact with newbies and teach them how to play vcmp". Like instead of helping, they make sprees but not only spree but abuse those new players if they by any chance kills that prof player. You guys should try to interact with newbie so that he can get as same experience as you and then that newbie teach another newbie and cycle goes on and on.

In littlewhitey's, I have personally never seen any staff interacting with newbie in that closer way than p4t. It is not because he is my friend or interacts with me, no please don't assume that thanks. He tries his best to make that new player understand

I myself would also think myself some big OG so does any other MK, VU, SS, DU, RT or EAF members. We don't interact to any newbies because we are in a good clan but they ain't (our thoughts). I barely see anyone making an asset outta it. Getting them an asset and a clan might make them do the same. Newbies who even become assets becomes as same as any other clan members.

We should learn to settle the newbies first instead of promoting the game and then making a temporary herd which won't be significant tomorrow.


..

So you mean, let cheaters, intoxicant and death evaders play so that they does the same again and again? No sorry, I rather prefer quality over quantity.

Weldone's case is rare and I suppose that spread enough demerits to the staffs to decrease the server's player count as a punishment.
Title: Re: Idea to save VC:MP
Post by: ripmemes on July 31, 2020, 06:34:21 am
Quote

So you mean, let cheaters, intoxicant and death evaders play so that they does the same again and again? No sorry, I rather prefer quality over quantity.

Weldone's case is rare and I suppose that spread enough demerits to the staffs to decrease the server's player count as a punishment

VCMP is dying, and if you keep with this xenophobic like attitude then itll die in no time

Half of those "cheaters" are new to multiplayer and have their games modded,they jump into a server and theyre banned.

Ghiless got banned once for silent patch for 30 days in lws,he posted an unban appeal and it got denied.

You want to know the result unless you try ,there are a shitton of admins and figures in this community but they cant be arsed to maintain server order and decide to go for the laziest decisions to potentially avoid dealing with responsibilities ( like scrapping features )

Charley, VCMP has to change its nature,theres nothing you can do to attract more people because no wants to play this dead old game, you have to save the community and focus on renewing interest rather than trying because believe me i tried.
Title: Re: Idea to save VC:MP
Post by: krystianoo on July 31, 2020, 07:15:12 am
VCMP has no promotion.

Where do you even download VCMP 0.4 as a new player? From moddb? From maxorator's topic in the VCMP forum? How are you going to find it?

Once you have the browser, it redirects to a dead forum link - http://vicecitymultiplayer.com/forum/

VCMP's barrier of entry is too high.

The only newbie friendly servers is littlewhiteys, because it does everything to prevent the player from using glitches.

You see the most populated server (in the past) - RTV - you join it, you get killed by a guy crouching with molotovs or sliding on your screen. How? How on Earth do you do that?

Oh wait. You can't join it, because the system requires manual account approval due to the plague of cheaters in VCMP. Just like EAD has today. Because of cheaters.

VCMP has no maintenance.

The forum has gone down in the past, the masterlist has gone down in the past bringing playercount to staggering lows.

Glitches are abused and made part of daily in-game combat.

The last update was probably a year ago, if not more. There is no contact with the developers. The only active developer is AdTec_224 who, mind you, is not even originally a VCMP dev, but a LU dev. I thank the developers for all the work they have done.

Player market

Charley, as much as I agree with your idea, this is pretty hard to ignore. Where are you going to get these players from? All over the globe? Asia? We have this term 'cafer' for players who use gaming cafes in Pakistan to play. Even that's not enough.

In my honest opinion, even SAMP has playercount problems. Go in and you will see thousands of Russian roleplay servers that are most likely 90% of the total "players" active.

Separation

Finally, you have servers that promote separatism. You have Chinese-only servers that you can't play at because of lag, being unable to download files or just not understanding anything. I've seen some Hungarian-only servers. I've seen a Turkish-only server, but that one was filled with bots. You have groups that promote belonging to a certain nationality, all of those mentioned condone sitting in your own echo chamber without interacting with "different" people.

Conclusion

I believe that in the past, me and morphine discussed a similar idea. I think that there was a point in time when this genuinely would have helped, but I'm not sure if we're not past the point of "no return" already. Nonetheless since you've named me, I'm willing to help because at least then, I can say that I've tried.

Quote
If you searched 'Vice City Multiplayer' on Google, and found that forum, would you be interested to explore the mod and its community? Fuck no.
Agree.
Title: Re: Idea to save VC:MP
Post by: mairee on July 31, 2020, 07:17:29 am
1.Newbies are more attracted to games like CSGO, GTA V, TC:RSS or Valorant. Why? Because of enhanced graphics and not-so-outdated bugs and maybe these are latest games. VCMP might have been a big thing back in 2010s (maybe) because it was latest. This is what 'time' is you can't do anything about.
I completely disagree with the graphics part. SA has a pretty bad looking atmosphere as compared to VC. The best example in this regard is one of the world's most popular game, Minecraft. While it doesn't offer awesome graphics by default, players still enjoy it due to it's endless possibilities and it isn't even one of the "latest games", it's just updated frequently which is one of the values VCMP lacks.
Title: Re: Idea to save VC:MP
Post by: morphine on July 31, 2020, 07:42:49 am
hmm
Title: Re: Idea to save VC:MP
Post by: GoRcEE on July 31, 2020, 07:45:44 am
In DM servers, most of us will find out ppl ganging up and killing a player twice, what will the victim do?
Quit - oh its rage quit
Doesn't spawn - scared

When the gang trash talk like that, the player gets triggered and talks trash in return, which leads them being toxic and nothing else. What should we do? Understand players, divide your teams play differently. Duel with each others, if someone asks for some rounds even if you know he's not capable enough to fight well, don't deny his challenge, fight. Teach him his mistakes.
Toxicity is top issue in vcmp right now, player count is still second.
Title: Re: Idea to save VC:MP
Post by: Kessu on July 31, 2020, 09:18:16 am
ban times are too long, people get cocky when you get banned, and sometimes you get banned because you said something admins dont like, ( example: ferrari called kessu a "dictator" once, got permanently banned,  cheaters in ead get banned for lifetime with no chance to get unban) they lose interest.
Ban times are whatever server's owners decide. Got a problem? Leave, or build your own server with your own style.

I have never banned anyone for calling me a dictator FYI.

Cheaters do not deserve a second chance.

Each server has it's own set of rules and if one can not obey them or outright refuses to, why should that server be dealing with the player any longer?

We play this game to have fun and some of us have created a server where we can have fun within a set of rules that gives us the best chance to have fun. We will not miss the shitstains who wish to disrupt that.
Title: Re: Idea to save VC:MP
Post by: morphine on July 31, 2020, 09:34:25 am
ban times are too long, people get cocky when you get banned, and sometimes you get banned because you said something admins dont like, ( example: ferrari called kessu a "dictator" once, got permanently banned,  cheaters in ead get banned for lifetime with no chance to get unban) they lose interest.
Ban times are whatever server's owners decide. Got a problem? Leave, or build your own server with your own style.

I have never banned anyone for calling me a dictator FYI.

Cheaters do not deserve a second chance.

Each server has it's own set of rules and if one can not obey them or outright refuses to, why should that server be dealing with the player any longer?

We play this game to have fun and some of us have created a server where we can have fun within a set of rules that gives us the best chance to have fun. We will not miss the shitstains who wish to disrupt that.

you paint with words, my friend

(https://ak.picdn.net/shutterstock/videos/12203990/thumb/12.jpg)
Title: Re: Idea to save VC:MP
Post by: Charley on July 31, 2020, 09:55:24 am
To me, there's no point in complaining about problems we can't fix.

Can we make VC:MP look or feel better, as a game? No.

Can we get the devs to release an update? No.

Can we change the behaviour of existing VC:MP players? Not easily.

Can we stop servers from factionalising? No.

Can we stop cheaters forever? No.

The VC:MP forum probably has more unique visitors daily than any of our forums, including this one. They are people already vaguely interested in the idea of playing a multiplayer version of Vice City.

Can we capture the interest of those unique visitors, and convince them to stay? We stand a chance.

Even if we just convince 1 visitor to stay per day, within a year, that's a boost of more than 300 players to the community.
Title: Re: Idea to save VC:MP
Post by: ripmemes on July 31, 2020, 09:57:12 am

I wanted to allude to few reasons that made people lose interest over time, not saying if admins reaction are right or wrong.

one of which is the long ban times and strict rules, speaking of which I was refering to all servers, as all of them pretty much play the same because they often get administered by same people.

vcmp is not gta online, and so long ban times wouldn't really help, it is barely keeping up with player count and if this continues it'll just lose more players because not many join the game, and so it is important to save the community before thinking about bringing other people.

Admins, devs and moderators of all servers alike:

do you want a different outcome?

then try different solutions!!


we all want to have fun, if someone does a mistake, warn him, or ban him for short amount of time, if he does it again, ban him for a day or even a week, third time then you permanently ban him.

that's how samp is still alive, as xmair pointed out, even though SA has shitty and dirty brownish graphics and slow pace.





Title: Re: Idea to save VC:MP
Post by: napoleon on July 31, 2020, 12:38:43 pm
let me explain what is missing here as someone who returned to the game a few years later.

Admins is banning new players because they think he/she were previously banned players. I've had this a million times. (I am safe now,I don't know what happens in the future)

the second problem is, when I enter a server, the masters are constantly killing new players. it is very difficult for the new player to learn VC-MP combat system. do they come back to the game they got killed? of course no. he/she can learn cs go, valorant at his own, because there are many tutorial videos. but he cant learn VC-MP. We have to make a comprehensive video for them to learn the VC-MP fights.

the third problem is, the community is not friendly and helpful to newcomers. I know this from myself. it is very difficult to join a community. everyone knows each other, but you don't know anyone. and no one is getting closer to make friends with you. when you say hi, their reaction is "Weren't you banned?" what ?  empathize yourself with the newcomer. Everybody is egoistic, hostile. I'm here because of my real life friend. I would never come here on my own.
Title: Re: Idea to save VC:MP
Post by: NewK on July 31, 2020, 01:15:38 pm
"VCMP is dying"

I strongly disagree with the premise that "VCMP is dying". This is just something everyone likes to say once in a while because they're no longer as interested in VCMP as they once were. A pattern I've been noticing over the years goes a little something like this:

Player A player loses interest in VCMP. Causes? Pick from the list:
- Banned from popular server
- Kicked from a clan
- Involved in some other VCMP drama that had a bad outcome to his side

Player A now starts claiming "VCMP is dead" due to their discontent with how things went while he was an active player/member of the community, but not because of an actual playercount drop ( Because who cares about actually backing up your statements with data, right?). And this is the most common pattern I notice about people who say vcmp is dead. There's also one other cause but which doesn't seem to happen as often, which is when a player moves on to different games, leaving the VCMP community but somehow still has enough information to claim vcmp is dead, even tho he's no longer here to see it.

The reason why I dont believe vcmp is dying is simple. I've been hearing this same thing ever since I started playing.  Every single year since I joined this community in late 2007's people have been saying "VCMP is dying" and every single year some new VCMP event hits record breaking numbers, even this year with VCDC and VW hitting 80+ players. There was no event back in the day who was even close to these numbers. This alone goes to prove that the people who say VCMP is dying are obviously just discontent with things in the community or due to some of the causes mentioned above and dont actually know if VCMP is dying.



Now, with that being said, I'm not dismissing any of the problems pointed out, but as Charley said there really is no point  in discussing stuff you can't change. So I'm just going to focus on the other ones.

VCMP Forums

Take a look at the official VC:MP forum. This is the first point of contact for anyone new to the mod. It is a graveyard. It's a boring, semi-forgotten wasteland of half-literate randomers. I put it to you that this is the main problem.
If by graveyard you mean inactive, I have to disagree. There's alot of cool new client side libraries being released there (sometimes weekly), perhaps this is not noticeable for people who are not into server development or people who dont even use the VCMP forums, but I assure you there's alot of interesting stuff going on in that section of the forum. Now if you say the forum is "boring" I guess that debatable, because boring is relative. For server developers I guess its not that boring, but for the general player or newcomer it may seem to be a bit boring indeed.

Your suggestion about community leaders is already happening I believe, just in a different way. Whenever there's a VCMP event people usually post on VCMP forums about it. I think its best to let this be handled by each server staff and event staff than to appoint people with empty titles and ranks to do something that they're already doing. I always like to avoid more ranks/positions since that further splits up the community, not to mention the drama that comes with it ( ex: why is player A leader, he did _BAD_THING_ why not me instead, I did _GOOD_THING_). Another thing is that what you call community mods/admins already exist, in the shape of beta testers. All beta testers are forum moderators. Many of which belong to different clans. VCMP devs themselves dont really do much when it comes to moderating the forum. All of that is usually done by the beta testers. And if you say say the beta testers are all inactive then you really dont use the VCMP forum at all. Because last year there about 6 or 7 new beta testers that were recruited (myself included) and they're the ones who have been moderating the forum for the past year and testing private vcmp builds. There's alot of stuff that happens behind doors that people dont see, when it comes to moderating the forum and testing new builds, detecting bugs/testing bugfixes/creating reproduceable bug scenarios, etc...

About contacting storm or maxo, you won't able to reach them for the time being. Maxo was around a few months ago and after many conversations we were able to convince him to give control to AdTec of a few more VCMP resources, to avoid the forum/update server/masterlist dying everytime maxo or storm are MIA. Things like the client update server and some other stuff are now accessible to AdTec since seems to be more reliable (being always around and whatnot), Which is why we were able to get the forum back up (with some help from VRocker aswell) and also restore some dead links on the forum but not all unfortunately, like the wiki and a few other links are still down since only storm and maxo are the only ones with access to that sort of stuff, that is another thing which AdTec should have access to aswell as moddb too.

Promotion

We (beta team) actually had a way to promote VCMP after rel007 was released but since that was pushed back because of some game breaking bugs that was held off aswell. There's been alot of testing going on, as I said theres alot stuff that happens behind closed doors that people really dont see so they just default to "VCMP is dead". The beta testers are active (when it comes to testing and moderating the forums). Not every single one of them of course, but enough to make a difference.
Title: Re: Idea to save VC:MP
Post by: JuaN. on July 31, 2020, 01:24:05 pm
let me explain what is missing here as someone who returned to the game a few years later.

Admins is banning new players because they think he/she were previously banned players. I've had this a million times. (I am safe now,I don't know what happens in the future)

the second problem is, when I enter a server, the masters are constantly killing new players. it is very difficult for the new player to learn VC-MP combat system. do they come back to the game they got killed? of course no. he/she can learn cs go, valorant at his own, because there are many tutorial videos. but he cant learn VC-MP. We have to make a comprehensive video for them to learn the VC-MP fights.

the third problem is, the community is not friendly and helpful to newcomers. I know this from myself. it is very difficult to join a community. everyone knows each other, but you don't know anyone. and no one is getting closer to make friends with you. when you say hi, their reaction is "Weren't you banned?" what ?  empathize yourself with the newcomer. Everybody is egoistic, hostile. I'm here because of my real life friend. I would never come here on my own.

what should be done before giving lessons and telling a community what to do with newcomers is to be honest and dont be a liar, lying about your past aliases, nicknames, identity whatever only god may know where the hell did you come from.

only those guys that are hiding something like you and get angry and reply back with hostile replies like you do, mayne that is for something yet you are trying to fool us with that lame story of "i played back in 2012 and i recently came back" who in the hell would believe that? you came back after 8 years of inactivity yet you have high-average skills? go and try to fool other ppl around or those that believe you.

before giving tips and others what to do you should stop lying and show yourself, and i repeat you are lying and hiding yourself for something otherwise you would not.
Title: Re: Idea to save VC:MP
Post by: MasterOz on July 31, 2020, 02:02:13 pm
I was depressed after hearing those "VCMP is going to die" statements but after seeing comments of newk and some others,hope got nourishment and refreshment.
I really want to play a part but idk how i can in helping VCMP.
But some advices above are applicable though.
Title: Re: Idea to save VC:MP
Post by: Vedder on July 31, 2020, 02:23:31 pm
I agree on NewK saying that the vcmp forum is active and it's not actually the problem. As much as I've tried to help newbies to make them stay in the past, it's frustrating for them to get killed over and over.

I believe there are a lot of chances of saving the community, I made a post in a latinoamerican forum two years ago and with only that attracted like 5 or 6 old single players who always wanted to try multiplayer but didn't know it existed.

Yeah, we cannot talk about changing the attitude of players towards newbies, but we can create dynamic tutorials, new gamemodes that aren't that thrown to pure deathmaching and can help new people like VCCNR, promote more the forums (thats at the end what keep us here).

I also agree with Krystianoo on his points.
Title: Re: Idea to save VC:MP
Post by: napoleon on July 31, 2020, 04:54:00 pm
let me explain what is missing here as someone who returned to the game a few years later.

Admins is banning new players because they think he/she were previously banned players. I've had this a million times. (I am safe now,I don't know what happens in the future)

the second problem is, when I enter a server, the masters are constantly killing new players. it is very difficult for the new player to learn VC-MP combat system. do they come back to the game they got killed? of course no. he/she can learn cs go, valorant at his own, because there are many tutorial videos. but he cant learn VC-MP. We have to make a comprehensive video for them to learn the VC-MP fights.

the third problem is, the community is not friendly and helpful to newcomers. I know this from myself. it is very difficult to join a community. everyone knows each other, but you don't know anyone. and no one is getting closer to make friends with you. when you say hi, their reaction is "Weren't you banned?" what ?  empathize yourself with the newcomer. Everybody is egoistic, hostile. I'm here because of my real life friend. I would never come here on my own.

what should be done before giving lessons and telling a community what to do with newcomers is to be honest and dont be a liar, lying about your past aliases, nicknames, identity whatever only god may know where the hell did you come from.

only those guys that are hiding something like you and get angry and reply back with hostile replies like you do, mayne that is for something yet you are trying to fool us with that lame story of "i played back in 2012 and i recently came back" who in the hell would believe that? you came back after 8 years of inactivity yet you have high-average skills? go and try to fool other ppl around or those that believe you.

before giving tips and others what to do you should stop lying and show yourself, and i repeat you are lying and hiding yourself for something otherwise you would not.
I am not teaching anyone a lesson. this has to be the same on all platforms. you have to help new players first. It is bad not to help a newcomer and kill her constantly. I just explained what I experienced as a participant. and about hostility, you are the biggest example with this comment. If you think I'm someone else, you have to provide proof.
Title: Re: Idea to save VC:MP
Post by: MasterOz on July 31, 2020, 05:29:43 pm
I think you are [kfVU]Legend.
kf = kicked from
Title: Re: Idea to save VC:MP
Post by: JuaN. on July 31, 2020, 05:35:24 pm
first, why does a newcomer have to be a female?

and this isnt the right place sorry for going off-topic, its my fault but couldnt resist seeing a guy like napoleon a guy that came out of nowhere with high skills and claims he has no past nicks or aliases.

and no im not hostile with everyone but to those that are trying to fool the community yea i am hostile and you are the best example for that, plus you kept avoiding the questions about your past and old aliases, this is not the first time we have caught a lying cunt trying to make a fresh start after a few months or years of being inactive(lying cunts that used to cheat ,stats pad, death evading) then suddenly the lying cunt makes a fresh start being so talktative, friendly etc towards the community then gaining power and influence on vcmp.

does anyone remember the TLK.Belial/Slingshot case from some years ago? this seems like pretty much the same, oldies like charley, morphine and a few others might remember it

Title: Re: Idea to save VC:MP
Post by: ripmemes on July 31, 2020, 05:52:39 pm
yeah hostility in community is frustrating.

many clans don't oppose to their participants' behavior towards other people.
and many of those hostile people belong to certain clans.

many servers don't punish players who irrationally insult others.

so there's that.

seeing how No_Mercy has been spat on, he regretted that he hacked ( which should be enough ) but then everyone started getting cocky, abusive, unfriendly and ill bred. he left VCMP, even when he turned out to be good at the end.

many of today's admins have hack history ( not the contemporary ones, I'm talking about those from 2009 ) but they changed themselves, they don't need to be rejected to change, they just needed the ban to realize they're wrong.

like it or not, VCMP's community is one of the worst. feuds between factions, greed, ego, and hatred. that's like nationalism but in a fucking game, in each one's clan.

yeah few clans are friendly to each other ( that when looking superficially at it ) but then you find that SS and MK are hostile. both having veterans and a well respected place in this community.

VCMP has a lot of shitty rolemodels here, dramas don't keep it alive.

we can change it, if at least we can't, veterans / admins can change it.

this one'll get brain donors, just an example of how some people don't get sick of hating.









Title: Re: Idea to save VC:MP
Post by: GangstaRas on July 31, 2020, 05:59:20 pm
When I came to VC:MP properly in 2009, yeah it was all about the experience of multiplayer itself on this singleplayer game, but after 0.4's release, VC:MP really brought out the creator side in me personally. So despite being here so long, honestly VC:MP forums was only useful to me around 2015.

As someone who is not inherently a programmer, no serious background in it, just hobby work here and there, the Wiki was and is a broken place to me. The minimal is done for most things, but it really doesn't teach anything. It's a review guide, and if purposed that way then sure it has done its work, but it's not the way to go moving forward as it's definitely no place to truly get how-to information on everything it speaks of, it assumes you already have some coding background.

That is a flaw that costs the community, because now we're saying only the privileged (the knowledgeable) should make servers and manage anything VC:MP related. I mean to say it bluntly, I get it, beta testing, server development, it's no role for a fool, cuz that's how we get servers that save unhashed passwords right? But with that, we have elitism and brain drain as our reaped harvest. We can debate that VC:MP is dying or not, what we can't debate is that VC:MP is pretty stagnant in feature set. That is fact.

We're at a point where more knowledge is needed for more creative work. I think the community would be a lot further ahead if everyone has the know-how to express their own creativity and/or dig for that knowledge themselves if needed.

We have same set of people doing the beta testing, making servers, logos, 3D models and whatever else, how will the community grow in a self-sufficient manner? When I got into 3D modeling that fact became very clear to me. Many persons are curious about how to do certain things, and these persons are trustworthy, amicable and could prove to be potentially functional assets to the community's growth if they knew where and how to start.

So if there was a proper robust setup to start, then we would potentially have a much better expression of creativity, far less brain drain to worry about, more robust and polished servers to play on, and then, word of mouth takes over from there.



Re player experience, as my story goes, I came in 2007 on a shit PC and some MK guy was practically stats padding with me at 3 FPS back then. When I came back in 2009 on a good PC, I was not one of the persons who intuitively learnt the fighting style, I needed the assistance of a clan. Should we publicize the general fighting style for newbies to watch? I don't know but honestly speaking I don't see it as a deterrent from VC:MP, but rather a deterrent from a particular server that doesn't fit the player's needs. For example, if racing was a serious thing in the community, that's where I'd truly be night and day. That's my game genre mostly.

But you see if we set a new standard to the name server developer, i.e. if all the server developers were on not just a scripting level, but a level where you know the game engine you're working in inside and out (GTA:SA's multiplayer community has done this right), I can confidently tell you that a server inspired from:

Are all well within reach, and whomever does it brings a fresh new idea into the mix. Some purists might say then that you're taking away the sandbox of Vice City and that's not really necessary for a new game mode and that is true. But honestly, unlike GTA:SA, or even GTA 3 to a degree, Vice City isn't a very versatile map for some ideas that can really happen.
Title: Re: Idea to save VC:MP
Post by: lol55 on July 31, 2020, 06:13:54 pm
nothing much but i completely disagree with your idea.
You have no idea how specific group works in vcmp and how they are targetting other groups but it does not matter with current system since no one got power and no one can do anything against anyother group except banning from their own server.

This idea will just kill the mod completely.

have a nice day
Title: Re: Idea to save VC:MP
Post by: napoleon on July 31, 2020, 06:43:39 pm
first, why does a newcomer have to be a female?

and this isnt the right place sorry for going off-topic, its my fault but couldnt resist seeing a guy like napoleon a guy that came out of nowhere with high skills and claims he has no past nicks or aliases.

and no im not hostile with everyone but to those that are trying to fool the community yea i am hostile and you are the best example for that, plus you kept avoiding the questions about your past and old aliases, this is not the first time we have caught a lying cunt trying to make a fresh start after a few months or years of being inactive(lying cunts that used to cheat ,stats pad, death evading) then suddenly the lying cunt makes a fresh start being so talktative, friendly etc towards the community then gaining power and influence on vcmp.

does anyone remember the TLK.Belial/Slingshot case from some years ago? this seems like pretty much the same, oldies like charley, morphine and a few others might remember it

I just told my mind to how to save VC-MP on my first comment as you can see. and you started talking irrelevant. if you want to know who is a liar, let me tell you. a guy didnt even speak to me once and hostile to me directly. you didn't even ask me who i am. and also, i am not after gaining strength in this game. I'm just playing on my free time to have to have fun. unlike you  :)
if you have a idea which it contains to revive VC-MP, share your idea here, but you're here for a fight obviously. we can argue elsewhere
Title: Re: Idea to save VC:MP
Post by: JuaN. on July 31, 2020, 07:26:56 pm
first, why does a newcomer have to be a female?

and this isnt the right place sorry for going off-topic, its my fault but couldnt resist seeing a guy like napoleon a guy that came out of nowhere with high skills and claims he has no past nicks or aliases.

and no im not hostile with everyone but to those that are trying to fool the community yea i am hostile and you are the best example for that, plus you kept avoiding the questions about your past and old aliases, this is not the first time we have caught a lying cunt trying to make a fresh start after a few months or years of being inactive(lying cunts that used to cheat ,stats pad, death evading) then suddenly the lying cunt makes a fresh start being so talktative, friendly etc towards the community then gaining power and influence on vcmp.

does anyone remember the TLK.Belial/Slingshot case from some years ago? this seems like pretty much the same, oldies like charley, morphine and a few others might remember it

I just told my mind to how to save VC-MP on my first comment as you can see. and you started talking irrelevant. if you want to know who is a liar, let me tell you. a guy didnt even speak to me once and hostile to me directly. you didn't even ask me who i am. and also, i am not after gaining strength in this game. I'm just playing on my free time to have to have fun. unlike you  :)
if you have a idea which it contains to revive VC-MP, share your idea here, but you're here for a fight obviously. we can argue elsewhere


why are you lying again about that i didnt ask you? seems like you cant stop lying, you are acting so kind here but ingame when i asked you a few times(on EAD to be more exact) about your past you replied with " fuck off, i dont need to tell u, show proof, cry" i even used to invite you to join CTF thru pm a few times till i asked you about your past then you went mad because i was asking you what were your past nicknames and dude that is for something, it bothers you and you obviously dont like someone trying to discover your past aliases, but if you didnt have nothing to hide you wouldnt mind about it and tell the truth but that is not the case.

quit lying napoleon.

and as for the topic about how to revive VC:MP the first time i heard about VC:MP dying was back in 2010 when Windlord(cola_sky's brother) announced that the mod could be dying that year, well here we are at 2020 and yea we have had a few illuminated ppl that kept saying vcmp would die sooner or late during all these years but here we are again at 2020 with EAD server on 33/100 players the oldest and "old fashioned" gamemode we used back in the day to make Clan wars, so revive what?

VC:MP isnt dead and it wont die anytime soon, because many of us could be playing CS:GO, COD, PUBg, GTA V, Valorant and a larger list of games and say just fuck this old laggy mod from 2005-2006 but we are all here because we love VC:MP and meanwhile that love towards VC:MP remains around it wont die and of course we have amazing ppl like stormeus,cutton, adtec, morphine, krys, newk, gangstaras and many others that will keep this mod alive with their ideas, work and all of that for all of us.

But i can assure you all that VC:MP wont die anytime soon i have been hearing the same story over and over again all these years i left for 2-3 years rejoined left again for 2 years rejoined but here we are yet and yea there will be one that it will become true and VC:MP will die but thats like everything.

I would also like to give the entire VU clan the credits they deserve for having all of us in touch on their forum, which is pretty much the other "VC:MP" forum apart from the real one which lacks a lot of things you can find around here, also the VU clan deserves some credit for keeping VC:MP pretty much alive at times with events such as VW and VCDC, the VU clan may not be the best in events when it comes to win and shit but fuck winning they are collaborating on a +50% to keep this mod alive in my opinion, they have done a lot for the mod and they will surely keep working to keep it alive, so there is my little wink to you VU clan.
Title: Re: Idea to save VC:MP
Post by: WiLsOn on July 31, 2020, 08:42:43 pm
/saveloc vcmp

/Nogoto on

/Gotoloc vcmp
Title: Re: Idea to save VC:MP
Post by: morphine on July 31, 2020, 09:30:52 pm
post 1



Charley:

Quote
There is apparently a dwindling playercount in the mod.

it is not apparent, it is factual. we are at an all-time low at present time.

(https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/738052209018929222/738861619924435006/unknown.png)


Quote
Take a look at the official VC:MP forum. This is the first point of contact for anyone new to the mod. It is a graveyard. It's a boring, semi-forgotten wasteland of half-literate randomers. I put it to you that this is the main problem.

VC-MP's front page is nasty to say the least, I agree. this can easily be taken care of if we decide to do more than just talk about the same shit over and over this time around.

Quote
My assumption is that the devs hoped to be impartial towards the community, to give the community a game to play, but prevent any individuals or groups from monopolizing or regulating access to that game. That is a laudible, but incomplete approach.

agreed.

it would have been a complete approach if there would have been at least minimal feedback/communication from the VC-MP dev team, and honestly nobody would have minded it that way under that circumstance.


Quote
Create a community management team.

sounds good on paper, as it has for the past couple of years.

I actually remember discussing exactly this with krystianoo a while ago and boom - here we are at it all of a sudden.

(https://i.imgur.com/0p3woon.png)








Niko:

Quote
I'm up with you, VC:MP needs more propaganda for start to seen the community growing up like old times

promotion is essential anywhere and everywhere. I have been a strong supporter of promoting VC:MP for a very long time and I've talked to lots of people about it. the only question I personally have in this regard is "where?".






Sean:

Quote
I'll put in an example. [EAF]Han (and several other Argonath RPG players) create youtube videos of fun VCMP gameplays,

Quote
In short, what I believe is we need a marketting strategy. Make proper fun entertaining videos of major events be it VCDC or EAD Championships.

1) the way the current marketing strategy stands is that we're literally advertising VC-MP to one another. there is barely any (if any) external reach.

2) the videos Han and the rest of you shoot are great, but they are not suitable for mass marketing. why? at the very core - it's inside humor. it's not descriptive or introductory, and can even push people away from wanting to try what looks like a cage packed with psychopaths. marketing material needs to be neutral and properly aesthetic at the very least.






ripmemes:

Quote
he must recruit other developers to work on it.

about the only reasonable thing you came up with today.





krystianoo:

Quote
Where do you even download VCMP 0.4 as a new player? From moddb? From maxorator's topic in the VCMP forum? How are you going to find it?

access to the client/server files needs to be centralized, agreed.

Quote
The only newbie friendly servers is littlewhiteys, because it does everything to prevent the player from using glitches.

You see the most populated server (in the past) - RTV - you join it, you get killed by a guy crouching with molotovs or sliding on your screen. How? How on Earth do you do that?

we could probably introduce something like a training ground / tutorial server for the newbies.

Quote
VCMP has no maintenance.


which is why the idea of a council has been in discussion for quite a while now.

Quote
Separation

Finally, you have servers that promote separatism. You have Chinese-only servers that you can't play at because of lag, being unable to download files or just not understanding anything. I've seen some Hungarian-only servers. I've seen a Turkish-only server, but that one was filled with bots. You have groups that promote belonging to a certain nationality, all of those mentioned condone sitting in your own echo chamber without interacting with "different" people.

regionality is not something VC-MP as an entity could/should be responsible for, for now at least.


Title: Re: Idea to save VC:MP
Post by: morphine on July 31, 2020, 09:37:25 pm
post 2



Xmair:

Quote
I completely disagree with the graphics part. SA has a pretty bad looking atmosphere as compared to VC.

agreed, graphics was never really a deciding factor in any of this, especially for Vice City. even 15 years later, it still kicks ass and anyone who denies it needs medical help.

public awareness of VC-MP is what we lack.






GoRcEE:

Quote
When the gang trash talk like that, the player gets triggered and talks trash in return, which leads them being toxic and nothing else.

it's an adult, 18+ rated game. offense is part of the game, even though it probably should be regulated to an extent.

in any case, it's time to suck it the fuck up. if you don't want bad-mouthing, go watch Teletubbies or some shit like that. no offense intended.






Kessu:

Quote
Each server has it's own set of rules and if one can not obey them or outright refuses to, why should that server be dealing with the player any longer?

We play this game to have fun and some of us have created a server where we can have fun within a set of rules that gives us the best chance to have fun. We will not miss the shitstains who wish to disrupt that.

well I can't believe I am writing this but I agree with you for once, only this once.






Charley:


Quote
Can we make VC:MP look or feel better, as a game? No.
jury's out

Quote
Can we get the devs to release an update? No.
yes

Quote
Can we change the behaviour of existing VC:MP players? Not easily.
but possibly

Quote
Can we stop servers from factionalising? No.
we don't need to

Quote
Can we stop cheaters forever? No.
depends





Title: Re: Idea to save VC:MP
Post by: Charley on August 01, 2020, 01:38:47 am
not because of an actual playercount drop ( Because who cares about actually backing up your statements with data, right?).

Indeed, I've rallied against the 'VC:MP is dying' argument for years now - people were saying it was dying from the moment I joined the mod, and it was patently untrue.

But now, we actually do have data, and as Morphine pointed out, it doesn't look good. When you have 30 players in EAD, they're 95% players who have been on the mod for 3+ years already. The truth is, we're not getting enough new blood.

Quote
If by graveyard you mean inactive, I have to disagree.

For an official forum for a community as vocal as this one, the VC:MP forum is incredibly inactive. To deny it is to be willfully blind. There are scripters dropping stuff there from time to time, and beta testers occasionally contributing to and locking threads, but other than that there's essentially nothing of any value, meaning or interest.

It's mostly people just asking for the same old script support, or posting topics that should be elsewhere.

Here's a fun exercise - open all the frontpage boards in separate tabs. Look at the 'last post' column. All but one of them have posts from April and before. Some of them have posts from years ago.

Here's another one - try and find 5 meaningful or heated discussions from the past year that weren't related to scripting.

Don't get me wrong, I like the fact that the VU forum has become the unofficial VC:MP forum. But I know that, for the good of the game, it shouldn't be this way.

Quote
Your suggestion about community leaders is already happening I believe, just in a different way. Whenever there's a VCMP event people usually post on VCMP forums about it.

It's not enough. People post and get what, 100 views? And no replies? That system has been tried for more than a decade now, and it hasn't garnered good enough results.

Quote
Empty titles and ranks to do something that they're already doing. I always like to avoid more ranks/positions since that further splits up the community, not to mention the drama that comes with it.

I will grant you that there would be a bit of tension with ranks, as with any perceived hierarchy. But that tension and any consequent drama would be eclipsed by the motivational effect that ranks and recognition would have. When you give someone a title, a responsibility, a formal legitimacy, they are much more likely to actually do shit.


Quote
Another thing is that what you call community mods/admins already exist, in the shape of beta testers.

I refer you to my product developers analogy. Beta testers are not hired for community management. Their role is to test the product, they should be experts on the mechanics of the game, that's it.


P.s. Newk, the only reason I didn't include you in my list of suggested peeps is cos I thought you were inactive lol. I would have put you in 'Community Admins'.
Title: Re: Idea to save VC:MP
Post by: morphine on August 01, 2020, 06:41:04 am

Another thing is that what you call community mods/admins already exist, in the shape of beta testers. All beta testers are forum moderators.

also - (one of) two reasons why the average VC:MP player does not care about beta testers anymore:


... which is why now the people of VC:MP have taken matters into their own hands.

gosh where have I seen and heard this before? sounds an awful lot like quite a lot of governmental institutions all over the planet ???
Title: Re: Idea to save VC:MP
Post by: napoleon on August 01, 2020, 10:19:53 am
first, why does a newcomer have to be a female?

and this isnt the right place sorry for going off-topic, its my fault but couldnt resist seeing a guy like napoleon a guy that came out of nowhere with high skills and claims he has no past nicks or aliases.

and no im not hostile with everyone but to those that are trying to fool the community yea i am hostile and you are the best example for that, plus you kept avoiding the questions about your past and old aliases, this is not the first time we have caught a lying cunt trying to make a fresh start after a few months or years of being inactive(lying cunts that used to cheat ,stats pad, death evading) then suddenly the lying cunt makes a fresh start being so talktative, friendly etc towards the community then gaining power and influence on vcmp.

does anyone remember the TLK.Belial/Slingshot case from some years ago? this seems like pretty much the same, oldies like charley, morphine and a few others might remember it

I just told my mind to how to save VC-MP on my first comment as you can see. and you started talking irrelevant. if you want to know who is a liar, let me tell you. a guy didnt even speak to me once and hostile to me directly. you didn't even ask me who i am. and also, i am not after gaining strength in this game. I'm just playing on my free time to have to have fun. unlike you  :)
if you have a idea which it contains to revive VC-MP, share your idea here, but you're here for a fight obviously. we can argue elsewhere


why are you lying again about that i didnt ask you? seems like you cant stop lying, you are acting so kind here but ingame when i asked you a few times(on EAD to be more exact) about your past you replied with " fuck off, i dont need to tell u, show proof, cry" i even used to invite you to join CTF thru pm a few times till i asked you about your past then you went mad because i was asking you what were your past nicknames and dude that is for something, it bothers you and you obviously dont like someone trying to discover your past aliases, but if you didnt have nothing to hide you wouldnt mind about it and tell the truth but that is not the case.

quit lying napoleon.

and as for the topic about how to revive VC:MP the first time i heard about VC:MP dying was back in 2010 when Windlord(cola_sky's brother) announced that the mod could be dying that year, well here we are at 2020 and yea we have had a few illuminated ppl that kept saying vcmp would die sooner or late during all these years but here we are again at 2020 with EAD server on 33/100 players the oldest and "old fashioned" gamemode we used back in the day to make Clan wars, so revive what?

VC:MP isnt dead and it wont die anytime soon, because many of us could be playing CS:GO, COD, PUBg, GTA V, Valorant and a larger list of games and say just fuck this old laggy mod from 2005-2006 but we are all here because we love VC:MP and meanwhile that love towards VC:MP remains around it wont die and of course we have amazing ppl like stormeus,cutton, adtec, morphine, krys, newk, gangstaras and many others that will keep this mod alive with their ideas, work and all of that for all of us.

But i can assure you all that VC:MP wont die anytime soon i have been hearing the same story over and over again all these years i left for 2-3 years rejoined left again for 2 years rejoined but here we are yet and yea there will be one that it will become true and VC:MP will die but thats like everything.

I would also like to give the entire VU clan the credits they deserve for having all of us in touch on their forum, which is pretty much the other "VC:MP" forum apart from the real one which lacks a lot of things you can find around here, also the VU clan deserves some credit for keeping VC:MP pretty much alive at times with events such as VW and VCDC, the VU clan may not be the best in events when it comes to win and shit but fuck winning they are collaborating on a +50% to keep this mod alive in my opinion, they have done a lot for the mod and they will surely keep working to keep it alive, so there is my little wink to you VU clan.

In this game, I speak politely to everyone. You invited me over there just to play. all you say is, "this team is full, can you go to the opposite team to make it equal?" It was. and i dont even tell you those " fuck off, i dont need to tell u, show proof, cry" words. If you suspect that I am someone else, I said show proof. You didn't even listen to me to speak. And suddenly, You told me I was someone else and liar. I politely answered everyone who asked me. I only had problems with you. I was even accepted to a tournament. if i were suspicious, I wouldn't be accepted. If you want to ask something, you can ask to ME. you can't get anything by gossiping
Title: Re: Idea to save VC:MP
Post by: ripmemes on August 01, 2020, 12:36:56 pm
Quote
well I can't believe I am writing this but I agree with you for once, only this once.  ( morphine quoting kessu )

I disagree, rules are rules, players understand that and have to comply with them, but sometimes a person gets outright banned for something minor but for a long duration. not that he's not wrong or anything but the ban time is staggering.

players get hooked to VCMP (that's a no doubt) and they want to have fun in the game, some of them tend to do something stupid ( nobody is perfect ) but they get banned for at least 3 days, that's like holding defecation for them. and they lose interest in that server as they hold a feud against that certain admin. those who are claimed by stubbornness will definitely try to ban evade...
it feels bad, even worse when the ban is due to a shitty VCMP glitch.

this is a game, and people want to have fun in the game ( or compete ). I guess 2 hours up to one day ban for light rule breaks is enough.


Title: Re: Idea to save VC:MP
Post by: Charley on August 01, 2020, 01:03:58 pm
Let's stay on topic boys
Title: Re: Idea to save VC:MP
Post by: NewK on August 01, 2020, 02:02:25 pm
But now, we actually do have data, and as Morphine pointed out, it doesn't look good. When you have 30 players in EAD, they're 95% players who have been on the mod for 3+ years already. The truth is, we're not getting enough new blood.
There's certainly highs and lows, right now we're at a low for sure, not trying to deny that. That low can also be explained by the fact that there werent any new(public)  summer releases. Usually every summer there are new updates coming out but that hasn't happened this year, so there's not as much interest.
If by graveyard you mean inactive, I have to disagree

For an official forum for a community as vocal as this one, the VC:MP forum is incredibly inactive. To deny it is to be willfully blind. There are scripters dropping stuff there from time to time, and beta testers occasionally contributing to and locking threads, but other than that there's essentially nothing of any value, meaning or interest.

It's mostly people just asking for the same old script support, or posting topics that should be elsewhere.
Have VCMP forums ever been anything other than that though? As far as I can remember thats what VCMPs forums have always been. Dont get me wrong I'm not saying thats what they have to be, but I just don't see how having community managers will make them anything more. Especially since as I said, server/event staff already use the VCMP forum much the way you described.

When you give someone a title, a responsibility, a formal legitimacy, they are much more likely to actually do shit.
In my experience this is true, but only when you appoint people that are trying to "prove themselves", if you're going to appoint people that are already well established/achieved respected community members, I dont think they will have as much enthusiasm as you're expecting.

I refer you to my product developers analogy. Beta testers are not hired for community management.
You say that, but usually when it comes to beta testers being "hired", they're suggested by other existing beta testers who are in fact members of the community.

P.s. Newk, the only reason I didn't include you in my list of suggested peeps is cos I thought you were inactive lol. I would have put you in 'Community Admins'.
No worries, no offense taken  :)



also - (one of) two reasons why the average VC:MP player does not care about beta testers anymore:
  • they are inactive
  • they are silent and as 'current community administrators', don't give the average VC:MP player the consolidation in faith they need for them to rest assured that VC:MP is still alive and kicking
Sorry to be so blunt morph but if you actually believe that, you have no idea what you're talking about. I'm specifically refering to the part about beta testers being inactive and silent. As I said in my previous post:
And if you say say the beta testers are all inactive then you really dont use the VCMP forum at all. Because last year there were about 6 or 7 new beta testers that were recruited (myself included) and they're the ones who have been moderating the forum for the past year and testing private vcmp builds.
The new beta testers that were recruited as still very much active and communicating with the community. You think we're inactive? Here's a list of things that only happened because of the beta team:


The (current) beta team is much more invested than you think.
Title: Re: Idea to save VC:MP
Post by: Luckshya on August 01, 2020, 03:38:23 pm
VCMP is not actually dead but kinda "dead" in advertising part and newcomers.

We get a peak of around 80 players everytime for any new event. However, we reached that count because it was properly advertised and on time that created a kindof suspense for the event by looking at the "leaks" of the event as they were attractive.

For example, VW9 started a new era of cool advertisement banners in an event that also made people advertise their entity and therefore join it with all the friends and clanmates.
VCDC 6 introduced custom attractive stage and designs and a proper advertisement area that looked very attractive.
However these advertisements thingy created some problems where a community would "boycott" the event if their AD is not selected. We saw a glimpse of it in VW9.

I agree with charley's idea. VCMP needs proper management of events on regular intervals so that current players do not loose interest but the responsibles should be chosen carefully who are active and capable of carrying out a "successful" event.

No point of talking about VCMP related ADs right now since most of the links on the vcmp website/forum are down including the most important wiki that can put some wrong thought in the mind on newcomers. However there are mirrors available (thanks to Thijn) but that cuts down the players again reaching to it.

One thing still I dont like about devs are not ready to accept new people in development. VCMP devs should invite new active players and divide the tasks of controlling the downtime. They should also take the responsibility of appointing proper people before going "inactive". I still remember (SLC) who was very capable of carrying out the dev work but for some very reason and weird decision, he was not taken in, otherwise the situation would have been a lot of different by now.

PS: Anyone has any idea where are the devs missing as they were supposed to be back by may/june for new summer updates like previous years that created interest in the community.
Title: Re: Idea to save VC:MP
Post by: morphine on August 01, 2020, 05:55:15 pm
also - (one of) two reasons why the average VC:MP player does not care about beta testers anymore:
  • they are inactive
  • they are silent and as 'current community administrators', don't give the average VC:MP player the consolidation in faith they need for them to rest assured that VC:MP is still alive and kicking
Sorry to be so blunt morph
.
.
.

I take no offense in you being blunt, in fact it was actually what I was aiming for in one way or another.

to me, it's all about real(-time) information and I was merely pointing out things the way I personally saw them...

...as was/is everybody else here. what we're about here is discussion and fact-checking on the side.
Title: Re: Idea to save VC:MP
Post by: aXXo on August 01, 2020, 08:00:46 pm
Charley, how about you modify your idea and try to lean it towards Discord? That way, we won't need to reconstruct any existing infrastructure, instead it will be a fresh start.

VCMP does not have an official Discord server. We could use one.
There is an unofficial one, but it is heavily inclined towards scripting just like the VCMP forum.

From what I've experienced, Discord acts as a good platform for any community. Even VU forum's popularity and usage has declined since Discord came into being. It does most of the stuff that a forum does and more. The invite link is easy to advertise, so we might get some new player intake.

What VCMP lacks the most is new player retention. I hope if the noobs have a platform where they can engage with the community, it will help with the retention. I agree with Charley that the VCMP forum is not a very happening place for anyone who doesnt care about scripting. My suggestion is to create a new platform rather than trying to get keys to the old one.
Title: Re: Idea to save VC:MP
Post by: mairee on August 01, 2020, 08:28:27 pm
One thing still I dont like about devs are not ready to accept new people in development. VCMP devs should invite new active players and divide the tasks of controlling the downtime. They should also take the responsibility of appointing proper people before going "inactive". I still remember (SLC) who was very capable of carrying out the dev work but for some very reason and weird decision, he was not taken in, otherwise the situation would have been a lot of different by now.
Let's talk about this topic a bit.

As far as I remember, SLC no longer has the time or interest to engage in VCMP development. I'm pretty sure the same applies to Murdock and Shad. That leaves us with a question, what option do they have? There's Zurix but I doubt if VCMP devs would ever appoint him due to not knowing him much. Who else is there?
Title: Re: Idea to save VC:MP
Post by: GangstaRas on August 02, 2020, 12:38:03 am
One thing still I dont like about devs are not ready to accept new people in development. VCMP devs should invite new active players and divide the tasks of controlling the downtime. They should also take the responsibility of appointing proper people before going "inactive". I still remember (SLC) who was very capable of carrying out the dev work but for some very reason and weird decision, he was not taken in, otherwise the situation would have been a lot of different by now.
Let's talk about this topic a bit.

As far as I remember, SLC no longer has the time or interest to engage in VCMP development. I'm pretty sure the same applies to Murdock and Shad. That leaves us with a question, what option do they have? There's Zurix but I doubt if VCMP devs would ever appoint him due to not knowing him much. Who else is there?

The rest of us to get even more gifted and upgrade our VCMP resumes thats what  :thumbsup:.

But maybe Murdock could come around though, he's been asking me of 3D modeling tips and tricks.....I mean that's hope right there right?
Title: Re: Idea to save VC:MP
Post by: Luckshya on August 02, 2020, 03:48:44 am
As far as I remember, SLC no longer has the time or interest to engage in VCMP development. I'm pretty sure the same applies to Murdock and Shad. That leaves us with a question, what option do they have? There's Zurix but I doubt if VCMP devs would ever appoint him due to not knowing him much. Who else is there?
I think SLC said that because there's nothing he could contribute to vcmp now. He gave us a great squirrel plugin - SqMod and had nothing to do now, so obviously he lost interest and said that. I think if he will be asked again, he will surely give it a second thought. I remember when I asked him about it recently and his answer was not a straight NO.
Title: Re: Idea to save VC:MP
Post by: ferrari32 on August 02, 2020, 08:18:36 am
So promotion and income of new players plus lowering the skill gap for newbies..

Maybe a youtube series of tutorials made by a team rather than 1 person. Group the top fighters and respected players together and make a how to basic for vcmp, complete with good editing skills.
Title: Re: Idea to save VC:MP
Post by: krystianoo on August 02, 2020, 08:25:46 am
This is a pointless discussion. It is more than sure that VCMP beta testers have been pitching names with a potential for the developer position.

Charley, as long as VCMP beta testers and, consequently, developers don't agree to your idea, nothing will happen.

NewK comes here and tells us how 10 years ago people also used to say VCMP was dying and to back it up with proof. Well, there's the proof. We are at an all-time low.

(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/738052209018929222/738861619924435006/unknown.png)

I don't care about Vice War getting 90 players. I want to open the browser and be able to join any server at any time, instead of having to ask people to join EAD or CTF so we can have fun.

You guys can "believe" NewK's words but the truth is that 0.4.7 was supposed to come out one year ago and the fact that nothing has ever been publicly said or announced about it since then should make you think.

Sure, you might have had 27 or 99 private releases. You might have had plans to promote the mod. Ok? But the average player has seen nothing of it and it doesn't look like they will.

I believe that part of the problem indeed is the VC-MP forum. I google "gta vice city multiplayer" and this is the first result - (https://i.imgur.com/pF7Fbk5.png)

This page, imho, has to be refined. Player retention is important and the links should be updated, the images should be cooler, there should be a brief list of servers with descriptions for newbies, an option to read all that in another language. We're a small multiplayer mod and we can allow ourselves for all that.

Quote from: aXXo
VCMP does not have an official Discord server. We could use one.

I agree.
Title: Re: Idea to save VC:MP
Post by: krystianoo on August 02, 2020, 08:34:04 am
SA-MP does not have more players than VC-MP because it turns a Spitfire's permanent bans into temporary 6 month bans.

It has more players because GTA:SA was the most popular GTA before GTA 5. It has more players because it's easier. You shoot someone in SA-MP or MTA, he shoots you back - it all works. In VC-MP, you can die in less than a second because of someone's laser aim with M4. In VC-MP, once you get shot with a shotgun you are going to die. All of us here might like that, but the truth is SA-MP is easier, more well-known and more accessible for the average player. Not to mention that it is more refined than VC-MP.
Title: Re: Idea to save VC:MP
Post by: morphine on August 02, 2020, 09:16:20 am
Charley, how about you modify your idea and try to lean it towards Discord?

this is the foundation for everything that we have been discussing over these past few pages.

this alleviates the need of developer/beta-tester input because we're not going to improve VC-MP by starting from the development aspect. we've got all we need in that aspect, obviously with some room for future improvements, but this is more long-term than what we need to focus on right now.

we're going to start by rebuilding and centralizing the social infrastructure of VC-MP into something much more sophisticated than has ever been before and waiting for / chasing the dev team is not necessary for something that we can perfectly manage ourselves.




1) false. as I already wrote - we don't need beta tester / dev input for what we can manage ourselves.

2) it doesn't really matter what NewK has said about any past state of VC-MP development, because it's all retrospective. what we need to focus on is the present moment, and our plans for tomorrow.

3) solutions for this broken multi-player mod can only happen through collaboration, so it's either we all come together for the occasion in our own right, or none of this will ever launch off the surface.
Title: Re: Idea to save VC:MP
Post by: Charley on August 02, 2020, 09:49:21 am
I think a discord server is a great idea, but isn't that just better catering to the players who are already here?

One of the main reasons I made my proposal was to capture the new, unique visitors to the VC:MP forum. A discord server doesn't solve the problem that when people first google this mod, it looks dead.
Title: Re: Idea to save VC:MP
Post by: Gulk on August 02, 2020, 12:02:35 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKl6WjfDqYA
Title: Re: Idea to save VC:MP
Post by: Thomas on August 02, 2020, 12:08:08 pm
everything ok with charley's first post,replace krystianoo with someone and all the toxicity goes away.
One thing still I dont like about devs are not ready to accept new people in development. VCMP devs should invite new active players and divide the tasks of controlling the downtime. They should also take the responsibility of appointing proper people before going "inactive". I still remember (SLC) who was very capable of carrying out the dev work but for some very reason and weird decision, he was not taken in, otherwise the situation would have been a lot of different by now.
Let's talk about this topic a bit.

As far as I remember, SLC no longer has the time or interest to engage in VCMP development. I'm pretty sure the same applies to Murdock and Shad. That leaves us with a question, what option do they have? There's Zurix but I doubt if VCMP devs would ever appoint him due to not knowing him much. Who else is there?

The rest of us to get even more gifted and upgrade our VCMP resumes thats what  :thumbsup:.

But maybe Murdock could come around though, he's been asking me of 3D modeling tips and tricks.....I mean that's hope right there right?

oh yes we're up to something in sky-city


oops leak. >:(
Title: Re: Idea to save VC:MP
Post by: NewK on August 02, 2020, 12:49:01 pm

NewK comes here and tells us how 10 years ago people also used to say VCMP was dying and to back it up with proof. Well, there's the proof. We are at an all-time low.
There's certainly highs and lows, right now we're at a low for sure, not trying to deny that. That low can also be explained by the fact that there werent any new(public)  summer releases. Usually every summer there are new updates coming out but that hasn't happened this year, so there's not as much interest.
Also we're nowhere near an all-time low, we've had way worse than this.

You guys can "believe" NewK's words but the truth is that 0.4.7 was supposed to come out one year ago and the fact that nothing has ever been publicly said or announced about it since then should make you think.
Not sure what you're trying to imply here. What exactly did you wanted to be said publicly about it? Since the last public beta, it was said publicly rel007 was being worked on. Which is still true to this date. Development was on hold for a while last year but this is no longer the case.

Sure, you might have had 27 or 99 private releases. You might have had plans to promote the mod. Ok? But the average player has seen nothing of it and it doesn't look like they will.
I never made the point that its good for the average player that there were alot of private builds being tested and there was a plan to promote the mod. The reason I said that was simply to show that the beta team, is not infact inactive and silent as people think, that has nothing to do with this discussion of Charley's points, you can consider it offtopic. It was simply talked about because morphine brought it up.



To be clear here, I'm not against better promotion of VCMP since that's obviously a good thing. I just don't think appointing community admins/mods on VCMP forums is the way to go about it. Because as I said, people are already using VCMP forums to promote their servers/events (sometimes even server updates are posted there). So the only thing that would change is that they would have a rank now.
Title: Re: Idea to save VC:MP
Post by: krystianoo on August 02, 2020, 02:01:23 pm
Quote from: morphine
1) false. as I already wrote - we don't need beta tester / dev input for what we can manage ourselves.

Yes, you need it if you want to start changing the VCMP forum (which was one of the major points of this topic) which is the first result when you google "gta vice city multiplayer".

Quote from: NewK
...

I don't think there's anything we can discuss about. My 0.4.7 comment was made because the public beta was supposed to be IIRC the last step before a public release, but the beta 'failed' and since then Stormeus has disappeared and a year has passed already. I know the beta team is not dead, I know AdTec is working on the mod but to pretend the situation is more green than grim is a mistake in my opinion. Otherwise I guess we agree.

Personally I believe that development-wise we might be in the worst point of VC-MP "history" so far. You can correct me on this but I don't think that in the last 5 years (and 7 years, not sure about 10 years) there has been a period with the main two developers missing and no big progress being made public for over a year, just like the situation is now.




Nobody needs ranks. In my opinion we should all agree that VC-MP needs better marketing, promotion and we should all come together to create a better main page with versions in as many languages as possible, with semi-tutorials on newbie-friendly servers and on how to play, with screenshots showcasing the best 0.4 features like being able to drop Rustler bombs on players with Barbie skins on GangstaRas's rendition of a tropical island.
Title: Re: Idea to save VC:MP
Post by: morphine on August 02, 2020, 02:07:09 pm


ok we are all literally reiterating each other's shit at this point.

I think everybody gets the idea -

we need to start.
Title: Re: Idea to save VC:MP
Post by: aXXo on August 02, 2020, 05:24:03 pm
I think a discord server is a great idea, but isn't that just better catering to the players who are already here?

One of the main reasons I made my proposal was to capture the new, unique visitors to the VC:MP forum. A discord server doesn't solve the problem that when people first google this mod, it looks dead.
With the help of developers, we would need to put the Discord link everywhere:
Homepage, Forum, ModDB, VCMP Browser *.

When a new player discovers VCMP, we have to get him into discord. I think it will work better to troubleshoot VCMP problems. Also, it will introduce them to the community. Frankly, it is the VCMP community, not the game and servers that keeps us all here, isn't it?

It is easier to join Discord with a single click as a guest and say "hi" or "i can't connect". Imagine doing this on 2010 forum and mIRC  :(.
The landing channel can be tailored to only allow guests and experienced(non toxic) players to interact.
We can not control what servers the new players join and the experience they have there. But if they all join a common platform, it will be easier for us to assimilate them.



*
Another idea:
We need to replace the Official VCMP Browser with a new one. People did create some interesting ideas(George and YSC) but it did not materialize.
It would need some proficient programming. But it could potentially solve a lot of problems:
- Modern looking
- Discord Link and possible integration.
- Error messages and launch failures redirecting to discord/forum.
- Shareable Launch server URLs( ?? )
- More visible "Internet" tab, coz swear to god when I was 12 yo I thought VCMP is just an empty Favorites tab and went to MTAVC.
("You do not have any servers in your Favorites. Browse the Internet tab or our Discord server to discover new people to play with."
CLICK HERE!!!)
Title: Re: Idea to save VC:MP
Post by: ripmemes on August 02, 2020, 07:13:41 pm
Quote
SA-MP does not have more players than VC-MP because it turns a Spitfire's permanent bans into temporary 6 month bans.

It has more players because GTA:SA was the most popular GTA before GTA 5. It has more players because it's easier. You shoot someone in SA-MP or MTA, he shoots you back - it all works. In VC-MP, you can die in less than a second because of someone's laser aim with M4. In VC-MP, once you get shot with a shotgun you are going to die. All of us here might like that, but the truth is SA-MP is easier, more well-known and more accessible for the average player. Not to mention that it is more refined than VC-MP

SAMP is not famous, it gained fame.

VCMP went in a downhill the moment some admins started being narcissistic, and the servers got boring, and no major gamemode other than A/D style or DM ever existed.

Let me refute your post:

1- 
Quote
It has more players because it's easier. You shoot someone in SA-MP or MTA, he shoots you back - it all works. In VC-MP, you can die in less than a second because of someone's laser aim with M4. In VC-MP, once you get shot with a shotgun you are going to die.

it is not about being easy or not, it is about being competitive, and VCMP is in fact more competitive than SAMP.

CSGO is not easy, it's hard. Call of duty is way harder, with DM fuckfests and you get shot every second.

they're both successful, while VCMP is not, compared to SAMP. we agree that gta sa is better and more famous, and definitely SAMP's going to have more players, but VCMP can have its playercount larger than it is today.

there is a clear lack of imagination, with every mass tdm server feeling the same, playing the same, as you run like a beheaded chicken in a narrow place trying to gun down whoever is in front of you.

no racing servers, no battleroyale servers ( doable ), not many unique and fun RPG servers, and actually no freeroam servers.

" bUt HeY idIoT, wE hAvE fReErOaM sErvErs, GTFO "

if you call something as lazy and shitty as LWs a freeroam server, or the other few servers, then you've never played actual freeroam.

the closest thing to freeroam is VKs, but even that, it is far away from being freeroam. you spawn directly into the main world where combat takes place and soulless admins grief noobs for sprees.

if you ask me, why freeroam is very important, it is because the one that has the most playercount in SAMP. ( UIF server )

Freeroam is an open world that implicates different types of game modes, aside from freeroam itself.

you should receive a menu upon joining server to get into any of these gamemodes

including:

1-Freeroam: a free open world where you spawn in a heavily modified map with ramps and big structures, you can do whatever you want, you can go on godmode and fly everywhere, get in a fancy vehicles and drift, or you can have a fight with a bunch of friends and strangers.

2- Demolition derby: self explanatory

3- Racing: different tracks in custom and main map, where you can race with other people in the same gamemode

4-Deathmatch: in certain arenas ( check uif gameplay videos to see how unique their maps are )


freeroam server can have other gamemodes, like:

-Fallout ( dw not a post apocalyptic nuclear roleplaying game ) : you stand with bunch of dudes in a platform and try not to fall as parts of that platform is falling out.

- protect the president: TDM match where robbers have to assasinate the president and cops have to protect him.

- Cops V Robbers: Self explanatory, not like that fucked up unbalanced mixture of everything that turns you into a grinding machine that we have today. as if Just Cause, Gta and Pewdiepie had a baby whose name is VccNr.


Conclusion: it really saddens me how VCMP has a great advantage over SAMP and MTA, the ability to add custom stuff without replacing already existent assets, it could've been exploited in favor of attracting more people into the game. and especially useful for newcomers who look for this type of servers. psst, UGMP will have this feature  :D

no way people would cope with the frustrating nature of LWs where old players endlessly kill and hunt down newbies, only 0.5% decide to stay in VCMP and take it upon themselves to learn how to fight. because they were patient.

the other merely have a reason to come back, while if they joined a real freeroam server, they'd happily join again and test all the other gamemodes without having to be constantly DM'ed and abused by assholes.


Title: Re: Idea to save VC:MP
Post by: Vedder on August 02, 2020, 09:43:12 pm
So ideas so far are:

Updating vcmp forum
Creating a vcmp discord
Create tutorials for newbies
Create more adaptable gamemodes and structures for newbies

I am also up for the idea of a video. What was interesting for me when I was a 9 years old kid searching for VCMP multiplayer mods, I was impressed for those images in the 0.3z intro screen of players sitting in bars, some riding fucking motorbikes others crashing cars. A good video that can include scenes of VCMP from different angles can also motivate people to try out the game.
Title: Re: Idea to save VC:MP
Post by: NewK on August 02, 2020, 09:44:01 pm
I don't think there's anything we can discuss about. My 0.4.7 comment was made because the public beta was supposed to be IIRC the last step before a public release, but the beta 'failed' and since then Stormeus has disappeared and a year has passed already. I know the beta team is not dead, I know AdTec is working on the mod but to pretend the situation is more green than grim is a mistake in my opinion.
Depends on which situation you're refering to. The beta team situation is certainly more green than dim. If you're talking about player count, there's been a drop as stated before but as I said, this was probably caused by no public updates which is expected due to 2 lead devs missing, and also due to the fact that VCMP forums were down for nearly 2 months early this year. But yea we had worse than this for sure.

Personally I believe that development-wise we might be in the worst point of VC-MP "history" so far. You can correct me on this but I don't think that in the last 5 years (and 7 years, not sure about 10 years) there has been a period with the main two developers missing and no big progress being made public for over a year, just like the situation is now.
The status of VCMP development right now is "Active". Which is the best we can ask for when 2 of the lead devs are missing. We've had that before during 0.3 days but that probably was more than 7 years ago. Progress will of course be slower but it's progress nontheless. Also back when stormeus was active, he was only active during the summer. He just got alot of stuff done since he's a lead dev. Right now there's been progress since the start of the year. Another thing that people that keep asking for new devs don't seem to realize is that any new dev that inherits a big project such as VCMP will have long period of accommodation with the codebase and will obviously not be able to progress as faster as lead dev. AdTec has done an amazing job so far, introducing new features aswell as fixing alot of game breaking bugs in rel007 and rel006 too, so I wouldn't call "Active" development to be "in the worst point of VC-MP "history".
Title: Re: Idea to save VC:MP
Post by: PunkNoodle on August 02, 2020, 11:18:48 pm
Yes guys indeed there's a lot of constructive feedback here but...... have you heard of UG-MP?
Title: Re: Idea to save VC:MP
Post by: Smok3 on August 03, 2020, 04:25:58 am
whaaaat
Title: Re: Idea to save VC:MP
Post by: ElvenKing on August 03, 2020, 05:35:47 am
I have got some new and old players in VCMP via game advertisement on different gaming discord servers. I can tell that it will literally help the case, it's just that we require some good video content like promotional videos, video containing some game-play parts from different vcmp servers featuring some cool custom content and stuff. I have a team working with me on a new vcmp project which is about to come. I'd like to give some time to the vcmp promotional work once we launch the server.

Quote
Quote from @axxo
last reply.....

Very well said!
I require two or three discord channels i guess where we can exchange some banner work, ideas and the concerned things.
We have had enough discussion here i guess :grin: Let's do less talk and more work. @Newk or some vcmp beta-tester must be the ones to create an official vcmp discord server i assume so that we get somewhere to start with :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Idea to save VC:MP
Post by: MasterOz on August 03, 2020, 06:57:59 am
GL with the good work!
Title: Re: Idea to save VC:MP
Post by: mairee on August 03, 2020, 08:46:03 am
no battleroyale servers ( doable )
I dare you to make a shrinking circle storm in VCMP, I double dare you to make one. I've already worked on a BR server for a long time but guess what? VC:MP has a ton of limitations and there is a lot of stuff that isn't just possible, it's easy to say, but not as easy to do so. You can't even make a storm that works properly in VC:MP, sphere.setRadius is bugged, checkpoints are actually 2D, there's no object.setScale, heck if you were to do it using the last possible way, that is by 3D GUI, your PC probably won't even run it.
Title: Re: Idea to save VC:MP
Post by: ripmemes on August 03, 2020, 01:32:08 pm
no battleroyale servers ( doable )
I dare you to make a shrinking circle storm in VCMP, I double dare you to make one. I've already worked on a BR server for a long time but guess what? VC:MP has a ton of limitations and there is a lot of stuff that isn't just possible, it's easy to say, but not as easy to do so. You can't even make a storm that works properly in VC:MP, sphere.setRadius is bugged, checkpoints are actually 2D, there's no object.setScale, heck if you were to do it using the last possible way, that is by 3D GUI, your PC probably won't even run it.
have you ever considered to make a shrinking wall instead? that when players touch they instantly die?

a circular object around vice city that looks like a tire, but is empty from the inside and it starts shrinking ( no need to make it smooth, make several resized models to achieve this )

change its alpha to make it look semi transparent.

if I'm not wrong, vk. angel of death considered once to make a deathrun gamemode, where the player is set in a narrow linear path avoiding obstacles, while a wall is chasing him and if it catches him he dies.

you see, you don't have to accurately replicate everything from other games. you need to be creative about it, no matter how piss poor quality the thing is.

Title: Re: Idea to save VC:MP
Post by: aXXo on August 03, 2020, 04:22:24 pm
I have a team working with me on a new vcmp project which is about to come.
Nice, I'm looking forward to it.

bro, please none of that LotR lore Elves vs Dwarves medievial shit.
Title: Re: Idea to save VC:MP
Post by: Spiller on August 03, 2020, 04:30:04 pm
bro, please none of that LotR lore Elves vs Dwarves medievial shit.

Gondor vs Mordor :)
(bonus elf skin and novelty bow)
Title: Re: Idea to save VC:MP
Post by: LumberBang^. on August 03, 2020, 04:37:05 pm
no battleroyale servers ( doable )
I dare you to make a shrinking circle storm in VCMP, I double dare you to make one. I've already worked on a BR server for a long time but guess what? VC:MP has a ton of limitations and there is a lot of stuff that isn't just possible, it's easy to say, but not as easy to do so. You can't even make a storm that works properly in VC:MP, sphere.setRadius is bugged, checkpoints are actually 2D, there's no object.setScale, heck if you were to do it using the last possible way, that is by 3D GUI, your PC probably won't even run it.
have you ever considered to make a shrinking wall instead? that when players touch they instantly die?

a circular object around vice city that looks like a tire, but is empty from the inside and it starts shrinking ( no need to make it smooth, make several resized models to achieve this )

change its alpha to make it look semi transparent.

if I'm not wrong, vk. angel of death considered once to make a deathrun gamemode, where the player is set in a narrow linear path avoiding obstacles, while a wall is chasing him and if it catches him he dies.

you see, you don't have to accurately replicate everything from other games. you need to be creative about it, no matter how piss poor quality the thing is.
ok. idiot
Title: Re: Idea to save VC:MP
Post by: Silent on August 03, 2020, 07:16:02 pm
Battle royal VCMP server lets go. Ik id play it
Title: Re: Idea to save VC:MP
Post by: ElvenKing on August 04, 2020, 04:21:31 am
I have a team working with me on a new vcmp project which is about to come.
Nice, I'm looking forward to it.

bro, please none of that LotR lore Elves vs Dwarves medievial shit.

Nah XD
Tho I had to add this Fortress as a base but ransomeware took everything from me  >:( >:(


(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/508298813870440458/733986383131312199/2020-07-18_14-59-34-0049.png)
Title: Re: Idea to save VC:MP
Post by: Luckshya on August 04, 2020, 08:15:23 am
I think we should try to put such discussions on vcmp forum to bring some activity to it? I bet most of us dont even have the accounts over there. Most of the other mods have posts flooded with such discussions on their official forum rather than somewhere else.

It will look good to the newcomers if someone mistakenly lands there and wont consider the forum => mod dead? Plus some devs that dont come here would actually notice this rather than an individual going to the devs ?

We should also move this discussion there with the a start of all the good points so far shared by all the members here and continue it there if theres anything left and also we can then ask for proper baords management over there for such topics.
Title: Re: Idea to save VC:MP
Post by: Athanatos on August 04, 2020, 08:56:13 am
Not going to lie, but an update to VC:MP is really critical.

I agree with the idea of gamemodes and of promoting VC:MP. The problem is that many people will consider VC:MP and old game and that it isn't worth playing. I've also saw many people prefer SA:MP for the idea that it has many more players. Yep, that sucks.
Title: Re: Idea to save VC:MP
Post by: (NYB)HONEY_SINGH on August 04, 2020, 01:06:38 pm
Today is good day you know guys i'm very busy person but today i've some free time for talk with you first i wanna say hi my old gold bold friend who spend life here and save vcmp  8)

1.Morphine Hello
2.Krsytaino hey(sry for speling mistake u can you know your real nick so dont worry about wht world called you)
3.[EAF]Kalu btw don't be chalu hello
4.[EAF]Keku hello
5.[VU]Charley Chutton
6.[VU]Axxo kese ho ji balle balle
7.[VU]Wilson salam
8.[VU]Ferrai33 hey hi
9[ULK]Aki hey
10.[ULK]Seporith who waste 5 years trying to closed NYB and banned me from xe
11.and Brain hello who see me and got mad how to banned honey singh from vcmp

come to main topic how to save vcmp i think you need focus on you carrier cuz no carrier no money than u have only vcmp money. from 5 year ppl said vcmp die vcmp die but vcmp never die cuz it;s stamp on your head you can't leave without vcmp you can leave for some time than you back again here so it's just a time some to so much players some time low player count okay enough time cya meet you after some time like 5 month or 1 year
Title: Re: Idea to save VC:MP
Post by: Sevrin on August 10, 2020, 07:07:17 pm
A lot of positive feedback, conclusion there. Cutting straight to point, we shall start working. Up for anything to make this game-mode alive & kicking!!
Title: Re: Idea to save VC:MP
Post by: TheKing on August 18, 2020, 05:13:52 pm
Bit late with the comment, but if this hasn't started here's a reminder.

Its time to work on the little and manageable things. Charley, since you started the topic, gather the people who made really good contributions and start off building a masterplan of a to do list. working on one thing at a time, after that brainstorming who can contribute what of the re-imaging of VC:MP.

Cause if we don't get the ship rolling this post will just die as other attempts. Charley, aXXo, Morphine, NewK, Krys seemed the most accurate of the route this need to take you guys probably should initially kick this off personally and bring all of us in at a point in time where there can be contributions, but gather together and brainstorm the basics.
Title: Re: Idea to save VC:MP
Post by: Charley on August 19, 2020, 03:26:56 am
Charley, since you started the topic, gather the people who made really good contributions and start off building a masterplan of a to do list.

The problem with that is that I proposed an idea which was pretty much rejected. I didn't intend this to be a 'Does anyone have any ideas about how to save VC:MP?' topic. It was a 'Here's an idea' topic.

Personally I don't see any alternatives that are worth putting my time into, or that address the problem I highlighted in the first post, which is of not capturing the attention of the VC:MP forum's new visitors.

The discord server is a good idea, but still mostly just caters to the people already in the VC:MP community.

We need a big change, not little things. Just like every step of the way in VC:MP history, it's the big changes that make a difference. There are always people who resist change, people in power who are used to having things done a certain way, who delude themselves into thinking things are fine just the way they are. I don't have the energy to try and prove myself to them anymore. If the building of this clan, our events, this forum, our community and XE isn't proof enough that I know what I'm talking about when it comes to community management, then nothing ever will be.

I think it's sadly just gonna be another one of these (can just replace 'XE' with 'VC:MP'):

>go on xe
>notice it's still dead

Great work, you managed to kill the only chance to revive XE by holding onto what little power you had left in that community you stupid fucks. Wish Charley just went ahead and started this.
Title: Re: Idea to save VC:MP
Post by: Klaus on August 19, 2020, 05:10:53 pm
Reading through the topic, I thought I'd just leave my two cents. There's a lot of good points made by Krys, Morph, NewK, etc. and I see both sides of the argument and agree with most of them.

What we want to do is improve the image of VC:MP, from the first-look perspective. It's not about massively increasing the popularity and competing with newer games, because that's never going to happen. VC:MP has great features though and it's never going to die out as long as we, the community, are here playing. NewK makes some really great points and we 'the old folks' have only seen this community grow over time.

The website needs work. There's some information about the client, and it's features, but that's it. The person looking at the VC:MP website for the very first time has no idea about the community, the servers, the events, etc. There should be some kind of regularly updated bulletin board of all the latest VC:MP news. There should be a gallery updated by server owners (at very least the official servers) with the best 'real' screenshots showcasing what VC:MP is about. A page for video content, which can share and support VC:MP videos. Basically, the website should be alive and kicking; a melting pot of VC:MP material.

It's just not though. It has a Features page which is basically a textbox, and a link to both the Wiki (dead link and completely uninteresting to the casual gamer) and the main forum that is basically only readable material if you're a scripter or beta tester. Yes there is some good information there on servers, clans, etc. so the foundation is there but it can be improved for sure.
Title: Re: Idea to save VC:MP
Post by: lol55 on August 20, 2020, 09:50:33 am
The idea of ranking system will just kill the mod instead of making it active but what klaus said makes sense if you guys just want to promote the mod why not contribute to vcmp forum by making interesting topics and some promotional videos and possibly designing a new theme for vcmp forum which attract people attention.

These things can be done without ranks aswell if you guys really want to promote and am sure stromeus wont refuse changing theme or making a few changes which can help to promote the mod.
Title: Re: Idea to save VC:MP
Post by: Sean on August 20, 2020, 07:34:44 pm
The day this topic was created, I decided to make some youtube videos on A/D gamemode. So I went on and made a few fail videos (https://viceunderdogs.com/index.php?topic=16509.0) and even though I had a very small audience, I can say I feel a bit proud since those videos attracted 3 completely random guys who had no idea what VCMP was. I don't know how they came across my videos, but they were so keen on knowing how to set VCMP up and asked me various stuff about VCMP (as you can see in comments). Note, the audience was pretty small. I only have like 200 views on my videos and it attracted 3 guys. Imagine what would happen if we all could hop in and spread the word.

Being a digital marketing intern, I can say we can use the same strategy in VCMP. The basic thing they teach us is in digital marketing is, knowing the target audience. There are many ways we can look for a specific target audience, such as, forums, Facebook groups (GTA, Vice City, Rockstar Games), quora, reddit and so on. We just have to link them to VCMP Forums, that is, after the devs decide to make forums more of newbie friendly and more I don't know like, magnetic? Making newcomers want more. They need a reason to stay. This way I can confidently say, we'll definitely get at least 300-400 more unique visitors per year. And to be honest, you can just ask them to join your own server. Just like I advertised Evolution A/D in my video, because I am active there most of the time and I can make any newcomer fall in love with that game mode if they ever join. This way we won't have to depend on developers.

Every single person here has the capability to bring the change. Even if you're not a content creator, you can always help the already existing ones. VCMP gaining new players will be advantageous to everyone, so yeah, why not?

Apart from that the thing that'll help the most is,

The website needs work. There's some information about the client, and it's features, but that's it. The person looking at the VC:MP website for the very first time has no idea about the community, the servers, the events, etc. There should be some kind of regularly updated bulletin board of all the latest VC:MP news. There should be a gallery updated by server owners (at very least the official servers) with the best 'real' screenshots showcasing what VC:MP is about. A page for video content, which can share and support VC:MP videos. Basically, the website should be alive and kicking; a melting pot of VC:MP material.

It's just not though. It has a Features page which is basically a textbox, and a link to both the Wiki (dead link and completely uninteresting to the casual gamer) and the main forum that is basically only readable material if you're a scripter or beta tester. Yes there is some good information there on servers, clans, etc. so the foundation is there but it can be improved for sure.

So yeah, it'd be great if devs could actually get into that.
Title: Re: Idea to save VC:MP
Post by: Exterminator on August 22, 2020, 01:08:38 pm
I will share my experience with you guys.
I joined vcmp in starting of 2020.
My first server was lw's . So I just connected to lw and started to play and understand what this mod is ,what can I do here and everything else.
In the starting , After playing for a few days ,I finally found out how to register and registered
And started to play. Some old players started to kill me as they understood that i am a nub.
After that i kept shouting that please don't kill me i am newbie but no one listened. I just quitted the game as I got pissed . then next day I started to play again and found A player killing me with m4 with head most of the time. I thought how he did that so i asked me that how you do that, he said this is aimlock . I said ok how to turn it on .That Guy said ,type /aimlock on i did that and nothing happened. I said it didn't work and his reply was hhhhhhhhhhhh. Then i went to google and typed vcpm aimbot and vcmp hacks ,found some search results but thank god i wasnt able to download.
Then one day same thing happened again ,then S75 aka Sezar asked told me that you wanna learn how he does that and reached me the basics like quick switch etc. Then I started to learn and he asked me to join the clan he was in as i didn't know anything so he helped with everything.
After that i started to improve and now here i am .
Many times i have also seen players making /q jokes which happened with me too.
They say type /q to get 2m cash .
One day my hud was not visible and i asked that and a random player said type /q and i got disconnected.


Instead of helping people they try to bully them by insulting,abusing making /q jokes.

Now it has been around 6 to 7 months and finallt now when I understood most of the things ,now I am enjoying this game.

I forgot to tell about how I found out about vcmp.
I was just looking for mods like cars,bikes etc for my vc and I found this at the end of the page .
It really looked awesome in those screenshot's so I decided to give ot a shot.



Title: Re: Idea to save VC:MP
Post by: klein. on August 23, 2020, 03:44:02 am
Quote from: Charley
We need a big change, not little things. Just like every step of the way in VC:MP history, it's the big changes that make a difference.

Not going to talk out of pocket. Seriously speaking, observed and experienced throughout my stay here.  And I am certain that not all of you would agree with me.

I believe that most of the players in VC:MP do not really care. It may sound bad, but why do they think like this?

1st, Bullying and group rivalry is one of the worst parts of this mod. Though it contributes a great part in keeping this mod alive. Since most of the people here also agree with bullying and how a newcomer is treated badly. Very few people happen to be friendly and willing to help a newcomer. Newbies takes the undercover skin and then a group of medic ambush and kill them all for making a spree of 50 then making it a forum signature for a little piece of attention. Newcomer? Don't know, don't care. Another problem is that, group rivalry which breaks its extent. What group rivalry are supposed to be? Let's consider its a game, make clan war, and after it's done. It's the end, perhaps you could challenge later the same team for a rematch. And this is how it was supposed to be. Not an everlasting rivalry that is not only in-game but every part of their life whether social or real. A newcomer starts his second day and then few guys are grouping against him "Oh yeah you took this skin yesterday and went against us. Prepare for the ultimate repa". And this is how the toxicity grows. It turns the newcomer into a toxic player. And this cycle goes on. Well everyone has their own way of behaving so I will not talk much about it. Admins are left with no choices but to watch.

2nd, Probably because we all have thoughts like this: "Ah, I wish I could make this mod better perhaps make my own server with new features but I am alone and I don't believe I can do it." or "This guy being an admin does not give a fuck about doing the right then why should I? Fuck it."  and the same other five people having the same thought.

Little drops make the mighty ocean. It's only these little things that are keeping this mod alive. By little things are unpopular servers, VC:MP YouTube videos, eye-catching arts, and hot topics. The major events have become necessary for this mod to never let the fire snuff out that is competition. I agree that devs have not been active for a very long now. But since NewK says that we don't know what is going on behind the closed doors, so I will not talk something out of my knowledge. Also we should not rely on devs for everything.

Summarizing it up, I think one person should do whatever he thinks he can possibly do and encourage other peoples as well. The work will not be wasted, it just waiting for its right moment and sooner or later you will be recognized and appreciated. Perhaps we could make a separate server for newcomers, from deathmatch to attack defense and whatever else. Make videos and topics.

Note: I do not say that I don't agree with Charley and those we agreed with him. Just expressing my opinion.
Title: Re: Idea to save VC:MP
Post by: ripmemes on August 23, 2020, 06:56:38 pm
Quote
1st, Bullying and group rivalry is one of the worst parts of this mod. Though it contributes a great part in keeping this mod alive. Since most of the people here also agree with bullying and how a newcomer is treated badly. Very few people happen to be friendly and willing to help a newcomer. Newbies takes the undercover skin and then a group of medic ambush and kill them all for making a spree of 50 then making it a forum signature for a little piece of attention. Newcomer? Don't know, don't care. Another problem is that, group rivalry which breaks its extent. What group rivalry are supposed to be? Let's consider its a game, make clan war, and after it's done. It's the end, perhaps you could challenge later the same team for a rematch. And this is how it was supposed to be. Not an everlasting rivalry that is not only in-game but every part of their life whether social or real. A newcomer starts his second day and then few guys are grouping against him "Oh yeah you took this skin yesterday and went against us. Prepare for the ultimate repa". And this is how the toxicity grows. It turns the newcomer into a toxic player. And this cycle goes on. Well everyone has their own way of behaving so I will not talk much about it. Admins are left with no choices but to watch.

there should be huge freeroam servers filled of players who want to chill and mess with others and newcomers can have godmode, and when they get the hang of fighting they can join other gamemodes like DM and TDM.

you should look at UIF server ( SAMP ) see how it works and learn from it.



Title: Re: Idea to save VC:MP
Post by: WiLsOn on August 23, 2020, 07:13:20 pm
Quote
1st, Bullying and group rivalry is one of the worst parts of this mod. Though it contributes a great part in keeping this mod alive. Since most of the people here also agree with bullying and how a newcomer is treated badly. Very few people happen to be friendly and willing to help a newcomer. Newbies takes the undercover skin and then a group of medic ambush and kill them all for making a spree of 50 then making it a forum signature for a little piece of attention. Newcomer? Don't know, don't care. Another problem is that, group rivalry which breaks its extent. What group rivalry are supposed to be? Let's consider its a game, make clan war, and after it's done. It's the end, perhaps you could challenge later the same team for a rematch. And this is how it was supposed to be. Not an everlasting rivalry that is not only in-game but every part of their life whether social or real. A newcomer starts his second day and then few guys are grouping against him "Oh yeah you took this skin yesterday and went against us. Prepare for the ultimate repa". And this is how the toxicity grows. It turns the newcomer into a toxic player. And this cycle goes on. Well everyone has their own way of behaving so I will not talk much about it. Admins are left with no choices but to watch.

there should be huge freeroam servers filled of players who want to chill and mess with others and newcomers can have godmode, and when they get the hang of fighting they can join other gamemodes like DM and TDM.

you should look at UIF server ( SAMP ) see how it works and learn from it.




yea bro they will ask you first in which server they should play in.
Title: Re: Idea to save VC:MP
Post by: capitan01 on August 23, 2020, 08:05:34 pm
There are a lot of olddies that never have retired.

- hope gotta back soon.
Title: Re: Idea to save VC:MP
Post by: Exterminator on August 24, 2020, 02:49:49 am
We can create little tour when a newbie joins a server like the server will show Announcements on the screen of the newbie ike if you want to know how things work ,type /tour .It doesn't take more than 5 minutes . If you ask how the server  will know that the person is a newbie ? Answer it will show that only for once when an unregistered players joins .

I got this idea from samp ,when i was playing I didn't have any idea of what to do . So the server showed on my screen (by the Ann cmd) "You can use /tour command if you wanna take a tour of the server and learn about the things.(I am not sure if this can be done in vcmp .

There are also some videos of training by Hanney .

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-B7YVzjseoMyJ8e5OJD_-Q
This channel , but it only has 5 videos.
Title: Re: Idea to save VC:MP
Post by: Sezar on August 25, 2020, 08:34:19 am
-

Gonna add another point in it

Newbies barely understands english. Means even if you try to interact to them, they barely answers and even if they do, 9/10 of them gives unappropriate answers like I asked someone 'I can teach you fast switch and basic combat' and then they be like 'wwwwwwwwwww' or some abuses or some bullshit which is beyond this world. 1/10 of them complies to you and agrees with what you want them to teach and make them understand how vcmp works.

And Admins ignorance. Most of the server's admin barely give a fuck about the report you make ( I won't tell their names or point out which community server) by giving an excuse 'don't worry I saw the report' and in next instance they usually play and do their own bullshittery. I don't see them trying to interact with newbies either (as I stated in my prev point). Then someone will say 'dude admins have a life too over gaming', n**** please. You knew what stress and responsiblity an admin have to take but still if you can balance your life with the this ig responsiblity, then only you be an admin. There are many community staffs who does balance their life with game or let a less rl-busy person administrate the server. In 60% of known servers, out of a well decorated staff of 15 to 16 peoples, less than 4 to 5 admins visit forum daily and 1/2 of them barely plays the server. Then suddenly an admin pops outta nowhere for a week or two and after i report a certain guy or ask him/her to check it, he be like 'oh my god sorry I have been inactive since 10th BC I am [insert number of very(s)] sorry I am only here to chill around and play with my friend a bit, please call an another admin to handle it'. I have heard same kinda bullshit back from 2017s when I started playing deathmatching server.

Now you will ask, what point am I trying to prove? I am trying to prove that if you want to revive this mod then start getting an active staff. There's been a lot of days where a blatant cheater plays from the 8 of morning to 12 of midnight and nobody from staff responds and then when we insult them, they punish us instead saying that 'we have a life over gAmiNg' and I don't believe players from today's playerbase are that incompetent not to be staff.

Again I didn't mean this above opinion to a certain community or a certain admin and I won't tell y'all either who was that guy doing this above things because if I call him/her/them out, a shit storm will be started and either he/she/they will say 'no I didn't said that' or say 'I did administrate all the fkin time'.

This was my experience when I was a newbie and something taking over the reason of vcmp's inactivity and no growth (yes this happens these days too).
Title: Re: Idea to save VC:MP
Post by: morphine on August 31, 2020, 07:15:51 pm
will take an extensive look at this thread from page 1 as soon as I physically can and come up with an approximate chronological visualization of what, in my opinion, will need to be done.

I am intent on making this happen and I will much more regret not having tried anything at all than having tried something.

the reason I don't want to do it right now is because I just got 6 teeth removed and I don't want to have to deal with a pain in the ass along with a pain in the mouth.

..... and I really have much better things to do at the moment in any case, but give me a week.

good day all!
Title: Re: Idea to save VC:MP
Post by: Harold on September 01, 2020, 09:08:38 am
Tbh i want to say that we should change the reporting system of players or change the punishment system.I want to say that if anyonr caught the cheater then he should report him on a forum like VU's or VCMP and players like Wilson,Siezer,aXXo and some others should take action about that because i think the staff members don't take action professionally and they try to take the revenge bla bla.. And staff should give the punishment according to rule break.Tbh staff members don't try to understand anything.Example:   https://ec.vc-mp.net/index.php?topic=10738.0
Who knows he is telling truth or not?Admins should discuss with him only 1 time to know what actually happened but no they are not ready.By these type of things player count is also decreasing.I would like to say that Administrative system need some improvements.The developers need to be active and they should be that much strict like Admins are strict in developers.cpp.Staff don't need to be strict all the time they should do some kind actions sometimes.Thanks for reading.(Sorry for bad English).
Title: Re: Idea to save VC:MP
Post by: mairee on September 01, 2020, 10:41:40 am
Staff don't need to be strict all the time they should some kind actions sometimes.
Punishments are meant to be harsh or people don't understand the lesson at all, talking from experience.
Title: Re: Idea to save VC:MP
Post by: ripmemes on September 01, 2020, 11:06:33 am
Staff don't need to be strict all the time they should some kind actions sometimes.
Punishments are meant to be harsh or people don't understand the lesson at all, talking from experience.
just like how hunting, bninin or sheep have learned their lessons.

I think you should decrease ban times ( 100 players banned permanently by ganstaras alone like wtf ), improve anti cheat detection, and make more newbie friendly servers that don't focus on DM.

Newbies don't understand that they are not allowed to play with hacks, they don't understand that death evasion is disallowed and certainly VCMP is bugged enough connection wise that a newbie would unintentionally get himself banned by a misunderstanding.

if you want different outcome, try different solutions, ...





Title: Re: Idea to save VC:MP
Post by: mairee on September 01, 2020, 02:14:57 pm
Staff don't need to be strict all the time they should some kind actions sometimes.
Punishments are meant to be harsh or people don't understand the lesson at all, talking from experience.
just like how hunting, bninin or sheep have learned their lessons.
Some people have the tendency to remain retarded throughout their whole lives, you cannot change them at all, the duration doesn't matter for those but it's best to keep them permanently banned to avoid toxicity in your server.

Quote
I think you should decrease ban times ( 100 players banned permanently by ganstaras alone like wtf ), improve anti cheat detection, and make more newbie friendly servers that don't focus on DM.
Making newbie friendly servers that don't focus solely on DM? Yeah, you're making me laugh at this point. A lot of people have tried making servers like that and they gain little to no player count, EG-MGM was a great example of a multi gamemode server which featured non-DM gamemodes. It gained a bit of player count when EC was down and suddenly a player came into the server and yelled out "guys EC is back", in a second all of the players left. Right now Argonath, VKs and VCCNR are the trending non-DM communities and people don't even pay attention to the other servers that don't feature DM (and ultimately they die) which is why people don't even try to code such servers anyway.

I invite you to "teach" us on how to write a better anti cheat detection system when we are using whatever VC:MP provides to it's full potential and it's failing miserably because evading VC:MP bans is something that a toddler would do with ease.

Quote
Newbies don't understand that they are not allowed to play with hacks, they don't understand that death evasion is disallowed and certainly VCMP is bugged enough connection wise that a newbie would unintentionally get himself banned by a misunderstanding.

if you want different outcome, try different solutions, ...
Please tell me how many games permit the use of hacks and how it isn't common sense that hacking and evading basic stuff like deaths would be allowed in a multiplayer server. That is nothing but a lame excuse.
Title: Re: Idea to save VC:MP
Post by: ripmemes on September 01, 2020, 04:34:21 pm
Quote
Making newbie friendly servers that don't focus solely on DM? Yeah, you're making me laugh at this point. A lot of people have tried making servers like that and they gain little to no player count, EG-MGM was a great example of a multi gamemode server which featured non-DM gamemodes. It gained a bit of player count when EC was down and suddenly a player came into the server and yelled out "guys EC is back", in a second all of the players left. Right now Argonath, VKs and VCCNR are the trending non-DM communities and people don't even pay attention to the other servers that don't feature DM (and ultimately they die) which is why people don't even try to code such servers anyway.

I invite you to "teach" us on how to write a better anti cheat detection system when we are using whatever VC:MP provides to it's full potential and it's failing miserably because evading VC:MP bans is something that a toddler would do with ease.
what the heck is EG - MGM ?
I doubt it was a freeroam server, player count has nothing to do with gamemode but with the server design and its uniqueness, which I assume EGMGM has failed to achieve.

Quote
Please tell me how many games permit the use of hacks and how it isn't common sense that hacking and evading basic stuff like deaths would be allowed in a multiplayer server. That is nothing but a lame excuse.
prolly because a big majority of gta players simply don't care. they do whatever the fuck they want in sp, why not do the same in a multiplayer freeroam servers where hacks are allowed ( only freeroam, other gamemodes it's prohibited to use that, and if you ask if I'm insane, then you better check SAMP's most famous servers.

certain things like silent patch and limit adjusters will get you a ban, why's that? you guys are being so fucking protective, conservative, and inconsistent you're killing fun instead of actually taking care of hackers.

Quote
Right now Argonath, VKs and VCCNR are the trending non-DM communities and people don't even pay attention to the other servers that don't feature DM (and ultimately they die) which is why people don't even try to code such servers anyway.
1- argonath's a light rp, its activities are Cops and robbers dm based + trying to roleplay you'll find out it's like DM but with a roleplay cover where the outcome of a roleplay situation you create will always end you up either in jail or dm'ing with cops ( cops take the game too seriously ) the playercount rises when smuggle is ready but dwindles when smuggle is over.
2-VKs is DM with side activities that nobody fucking plays them but to get unlocks.
3-VCCNR is about grinding by DM.

so whatever do you suggest? all we have are either a/d clones, ( empire a/d, evolution a/d, capture the flag ) or tdm clones ( european city, extreme addicts, lw's server, VCCNr ).

in every community you find certain cliques of people, each one that cherish one element of the game, the racing element, the stunting element, the rpg element, the sandbox element etc... which can all be found in a well designed freeroam cross-gamemode server

but VCMP nowadays is a single clique's monopoly, a group of friends who administrate many if not all the servers on the platform and those people are into one aspect of the game and are trying to enforce it on people, certain newbies join a typical tdm server, drive excitingly around a gun battle between the DM guys and they get gunned down, it is fun at first but it gets boring because there is nothing but DM, those who like fighting will eventually gain skills but those who hate combat will leave never to come back.

+ those group of friends will consider every outsider as... outsider. they don't help him and will act hostile towards him, grief him until he toughs it out or leave.

a freeroam global server, new VCMP update, plus proper advertising ( inviting players through SAMP and other gta mp forums ) and revival of VC:MP forums, with less cancerous hostility in clans ( clan leaders oversee their recruits' behavior ) is the ultimate solution.




Title: Re: Idea to save VC:MP
Post by: morphine on September 11, 2020, 05:22:18 pm

good day all!

extending this indefinitely, it is unfortunately taking much more time for me to make this post than was initially expected.