Vice Underdogs
Discussion => Guides => Topic started by: Charley on January 26, 2020, 04:11:48 pm
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Hello all!
After this (https://viceunderdogs.com/index.php?topic=14621.msg145759#msg145759) post I had several people contact me for advice on setting up or managing a clan. I'm going to throw a bunch of general advice into this topic, and then for a couple of people will follow up with specific advice. If you're a new or existing clan leader, please feel free to drop me a line! If I have time, and you are polite, I will happily provide a bit of advice.
So here it goes. The step by step plan to creating a clan in VC:MP.
If you'd like to repost this elsewhere, please feel free, but also please credit the author (me) and link to this original topic.
Step 1: Choose an identity
This might sound simple, but it isn't, it's huge, complicated, and might take months or even years to get right. It's not just choosing a clan name, it's choosing the purpose for its existence, one that sets you and your clan apart from all the others.
- 1a. Choose some values. What are you for, what are you against? What's the ethos at the centre of your dream? If you're struggling on this, you can try to think what you would like the clan to look like in 2 years, when it's full of members. How will they behave? What do you want people to think about the clan? How does it reflect your personal approach to VC:MP?
My first attempt at opening a clan, the only true value I had articulated was active leadership. At the time, VC:MP was virtually dead as the masterlist had been down for 6 months or so, but even before that, the leadership of the dominant clans (KFJ, DnA, MK) were inactive. When new, energetic players joined, their enthusiasm was wasted, because they simply weren't being led by anyone.
It turns out, this value alone wasn't enough. The clan failed. After that, I tried again, with a player named Bugsy, and that failed too, because essentially I'd made no adjustment to the values. The third time, I opened up a clan with a guy called N0W4R, with new values. We were united in one thing: we were avid LW players, and we hated roofers, and spazzers. We thought they were weak, cowardly, and disrupted the more pure version of gameplay (an opinion I didn't hold for long). Suddenly, we had an identity. We had a reason to exist. We wanted active leadership, and we wanted to fight the roofers and spazzers.
This worked for a while, but the values weren't flexible, weren't scalable, and NOW4R was not a reliable co-leader. I decided to close the clan, but a good number of people asked me not to. Knucis, aXXo and I thought about it carefully for a while, and eventually I decided we could reopen if we choose a new identity, one that reflects more closely what I wanted the clan to be in the future.
We were the underdogs, we were fighting against the mainstream clans at the time. And we were against elitism, we would accept anyone if they pledged activity and a will to improve. Back then, getting into a clan was almost impossible. The barriers for entry were incredibly high, and KFJ and DnA even closed their applications at some point, becoming invite-only. Fuck that, we decided to create two training ranks, so that we could help newbies. We wouldn't rely on old talent, we would create new talent.
Our values were set: strong, active, large, open, helpful, friendly.
You have to choose yours. What are you opposing in VC:MP? What are you proposing in VC:MP? How can reality for players be a little different, if they joined you and not another clan?
- 1b. Choose a name. Think very carefully about this. It should follow from your values. Why did I choose Vice Underdogs? Simple. We were playing Vice City, and at that time, we were very much the underdogs, disrupting the status quo. We're not underdogs any more, but it doesn't matter, the name is a nice reference to a point in our history.
Think carefully about how the tag is going to look. VU looks fucking cool. ArS looked cool. My first attempt, TaB, not so cool. I don't even remember the name of my second attempt, but the tag looked shitty. You want a tag that people want to wear. If you're going to have training ranks, think carefully how they're going to look too.
Remember: your name is going to inform your visual identity going forward. It's going to be on forum boards, it will appear in memes, it will be discussed on discord. Think carefully.
- 1c. Choose a visual identity. What are your forums going to look like? What's your logo gonna be? What colour are your players going to play as mostly? What characters represent who you and your clan are? This is very important. It is about building your brand, making it look professional and coherent.
Think back to your values. Maybe you're going to look for a fierce aesthetic, or a warm one, or a minimalist, modernist one.
Why did we choose pink? Because it's playful, it doesn't take itself seriously. We were never a clan that wanted to say 'Fuck you, we're better than you.' We've always been a clan that says 'Let's just have some fun, keep things on the lighter side, and be able to laugh at ourselves.' We were not concerned with looking macho. Some people liked this, some people didn't, but at the end of the day it reflected our values. It also set us apart from our new competitors in 2009, ULK, who had a completely black forum, and had the 'fuck you' attitude to match it.
What will your signatures look like? Do you want them to be personalised for each member? Do you want there to be consistency? My advice would be to build a coherent visual identity across all of your members' signatures. It can even be a selling point for your clan - you join, you get one of those kickass signatures.
Consider making a custom HUD. Then all screenshots from your members are gonna have your logo on it.
Step 2: Hierarchy and administration
How will tasks be shared, and how will clan members participate in decision-making? Clan members want and need strong leadership in the beginning, but they also need some way of contributing, to feel a bit of ownership over their clan. This is a difficult balance to pull off, and most clan leaders are unsuccessful in doing it.
- 2a. Lead from your values. Your decisions as a clan leader need to be in line with the values you decided in Step 1. If anyone points out that you are straying from your values, for whatever reason, then you need to take a step back and examine your actions. Consistency is key, it builds trust among your clan members and strengthens the clan's public image. Do not make exceptions for your friends, do not make exceptions for personal benefit, do not make exceptions ever.
- 2b. Choose a hierarchical model. One is not necessarily better than another, but they vary in how appropriate they are to your situation. Four basic models are:
- One leader among equal members. This is a good model if you're aiming to recruit quality over quantity. You should only choose this if you're a fairly reputable player, and can rely on drawing experienced talent from other clans. The best example of this was TRC, in which Morphine (despite Metalord and Foxtrot's presence) really ran the show from day one. He was enough of a big fish to draw people in. If you aren't a big fish, this model is going to be very difficult for you. Also remember, just because you're the leader, doesn't mean you don't need to listen to the members. Your decisions should follow from the values you defined in step one, not your personal interests. If your members point out that something you've decided contradicts the clan values, it is vital that you listen to them. Consistency is key. This model is good for strong and quick decision-making, and it draws clear boundaries for clan discipline and representation, but only for as long as you can guarantee your activity level. Once you're inactive, the whole show slowly falls apart.
- One leader among tiered members. VU was the first clan in VC:MP to introduce two training ranks, and we did so because it directly follows from our values. Soon after, many realised the strength of this model, they adopted it too. It allows a longer cultivation period for new members, with a lot of associated benefits. There's more flexibility with who you accept into the clan, because if a lower-tier member acts out, it doesn't affect your reputation as much. It also allows you to accept members who don't yet embody all of the values of your clan, in the faith that over time they can learn to do so. For a game where experienced players are few, and where newbies often need to be given good reasons to stay, this model is great. It does mean, however, that you'll be dealing with a lot more discipline issues, and you will get a lot of criticism for accepting 'newbs'. Trust your judgement. Others might think that think that one person is useless, disloyal, rude, whatever. But if you think they have potential, then stick with them. This model is the most time-intensive, so if your activity is limited, it's not super wise. I'll get into why in the 'Recruitment' section below.
- Equal full members among tiered members, no single leader. This is the system that VU currently has, and it's the one that ULK eventually evolved into. This is e great model for sustainable activity, but it requires that you can trust your full members to discuss issues and make decisions in a mature, reasonable way, guided by the clan values. My advice is to wait until you've established a clear clan culture among your members before shifting to this model. I advise against adopting this model in the beginning. When should you switch to this model? Whenever you need to, and you think that the clan is ready for it. In our case, we switched because of leader inactivity. What was the result? We went from a dying clan to, once again, an active, vibrant community of brothers. This maximises the level of ownership that each individual member feels over the clan in an equal system. I would also advise that you set roles for the full leaders, while still maintaining their equality. In VU, we have an administration circle, which acts like a mix between an HR department and a constitutional court, making sure the clan is abiding by its values; we have the development circle, which acts like a business development department, exploring growth opportunities; and we have a recruitment circle, which is self-explanatory.
- Multiple leaders, multiple tiers. This system involves having one or more co-leaders or 'senior members', and multiple tiers of regular members. This system is a mistake that I've seen repeated over and over again. It almost never works. It leads to inefficiency, conflict, a lack of consistency, disciplinary mistakes and a lack of ownership on the part of your regular members. You can reasonably assume that in the beginning, no one is going to share your vision completely. Unless you want to compromise on some of the values you defined in Step 1, it's best to avoid having co-leaders. Never choose this model.
Ultimately, you have to pick whatever model works for you. Generally speaking, for new clan leaders, the 'One leader among tiered members' model is the best place to start, with a view to eventually transitioning to 'Equal full members among tiered members'. This worked for VU, and it worked for ULK (until the big drama). You may instead want to transition to Multiple leaders, multiple tiers, like MK have done, but that's really up to you, and it will take time, don't do it from the start.
- 2c. Separate administration from clan management. If you're great at making forums, and doing the technical shit involved with the backend of running a clan, then great. But, the chances are, you aren't, and you're going to need help. IIRC the original VU forum was set up by [DU]Darfy as a favour. After I fucked up that forum (I sent all members an email, not knowing that web hosts normally have a rule against that to protect against spam), Darfy helped set up this one, originally hosted by VRocker, now hosted and soon administrated by Thijn. Thijn has been, and continues to be, the administrator from heaven. He is so unbelievably kick-ass. Here's the important thing: Darfy and Thijn are capable, generous with their time, and never, ever, interpret their control over the forum as granting the right to make decisions regarding the clan. [DnA]Ryz is another great example of this, he was a kick-ass forum admin, but that didn't affect his position in clan decision-making. He was not the leader, he did not step in.
There have been countless examples where clan leaders are not clear enough with forum admins, where they don't establish boundaries, and the admin takes advantage of their power. The most famous example of this was ULK.akiharu. He created the new ULK forum, and the XE forum, and assumed a quasi-leader-like position in the clan. When, eventually, the old members called him out on it, everything exploded. Akiharu banned some of them, they made their own forum, and the members were split down the middle. For a while, there were two ULKs, and neither would capitulate, until eventually the clan all but faded from existence. What was at one time, the biggest, most powerful clan in the mod, was brought down by not clearly separating administration from clan management.
- 2d. Flexibility mitigates against inactivity. There will be periods where the managing member(s) of your clan are unable to attend to all of the issues they need to. Clan applications may go unsorted, recruitment might stall, spammers might successfully invade your forum, there may be no clan events for months on end. To avoid these situations, you need to be flexible. If you can't find the time to fulfill all of your duties, then find someone else to take some of them, or adjust the hierarchy model. Act fast, before clan members get sick of it, lose faith, and decide to leave.
Step 3: Recruit
Your initial members might be a couple of friends that you've persuaded to quit other clans from, e.g. I convinced aXXo and a guy called mert to quit MK with me. But they aren't gonna be enough. It's time to recruit.
- 3a. Small fish. Ever heard the saying 'Big fish in a small pond'? Well, there are a few of those around in VC:MP. But going for them directly, that's not going to work. Unless you're following the 'One leader among equal full members' model, your best bet is to go find some small fish, and help them grow. When I first started out, I would spend hours going ingame, finding any newbie who spoke English half-decent, and taught them basic fighting techniques. Then I would say 'Hey, it's been really nice playing with you. If you want to learn more fighting techniques, and meet more of my friends here, go to this website and apply to my clan! You seem like a cool guy!' It was long, tiring work, but it got results. It wasn't long before we had 10-15 players running around the game with VU_T and VU_R tags on. Remember, people wearing your tag is free advertising. Don't worry too much in the beginning about their adherence to your clan values - this is what training tags are for! Doing it this way, you're also doing a service to the VC:MP community, by raising the chances that newbie is going to stick around and contribute to the overall playercount.
- 3b. Medium fish. These are the guys who might have been in a couple of clans, or have chosen to remain clanless for a while, and they're sort of experienced, they know how to fight, but they're not exactly pros, and they don't have a huge rep. Seek a couple of these out, and don't worry too much about their English ability. In fact, if they can fight well, but don't speak much ingame, that's ideal. The strong and silent types will build your clan's reputation, and are sure not to rock the boat.
- 3c. Big fish. Unless you've got a seriously good reputation in VC:MP, it's unlikely you'll attract many (or any) of these in the first year or two. That doesn't mean you shouldn't be trying, just don't overdo it. The important thing is to single out who you think you want, and who you think might be interested in a bit of a change, and cultivate a long-term relationship with them. You need them to know that they're wanted, that you want them in, and you're willing to wait until they're ready. Ask your members who they would like in the clan, who do they see potential in? It's quite fun, to discuss potential new members, and work on getting them in together. As a rule of thumb, though, try not to recruit directly from your competitor clans. This can cause some seriously bad blood and damage your reputation - VU and MK were at war for a year or two because of this. If you are cool with people, over time, you will get some pleasant surprises. I've experienced this a few times, when people I never expected to apply did so, and it truly is a great feeling. I think the first one was Skirmant, more than 2 years after the clan was first established.
- 3d. Never stop. Recruitment is the job that never ends. It might change a bit, and once you're established you'll find it much easier, but still, it never ends. People leave VC:MP, people leave your clan, people go inactive. You need to maintain a full, active roster. For reference, at the time of writing, we have 60 VUs, 23 Rookies and 18 Trainees registered on the forum. That is the number of members that we require to maintain the level of activity that you currently see from us. How many of them are active? Around half.
- 3e. Inactivity is fine. One of the mistakes I made when I first opened the clan was to suggest that people should be kicked if they're inactive. This is dumb. Just because someone is inactive, it doesn't mean that they aren't loyal. It means they've got other shit going on. Many people are only available during one period of time per year, e.g. the summer. Others might temporarily get distract or bored of VC:MP. Keep them in your roster, you never know when they're going to come back. The surprise returns of Gangstaras, Madkiller, TheKing and others over the years have contributed a great deal to VU's success. Other clans will have similar stories - Faf's return to MK, Head's to ULK, Smoke2Joints to DnA. Instead of punishing inactivity, you need to make your clan and its time together attractive enough for people to want to login over and over again.
Most of our original applications were lost when I fucked up our first forum, but you can still find a decent number of reference applications on this forum. Go to the last page of the accepted and denied applications and start reading.
Step 4: Get noticed
Your clan needs to be on people's minds. It needs to be in people's discussions. They need to be thinking about it, and talking about it, when you're not around. There are a few good ways to do this.
- 4a. Events. This was one of VU's two chosen routes. We create events for two reasons. First, it is to grow the community. The more active players there are, the more you have to choose from, the more you have to play against. ULK.HeAD once told me the only reason he put so much effort into ULK and XE was so that, in ten years, he could log on again, and still have people to play with. Second, well coordinated community events are a good way to drive traffic to your forum, to gain reputation and to show off your leadership skills.
- 4b. A server. This one is harder, but garners the same benefits as events. Create a good server, worth playing, and people will naturally come to you. Watch out for people who are only interested in your clan because they think it will grant them admin privileges, however. These guys don't have the right priorities, and they will likely let you down as soon as the going gets tough (which it will, more on that later).
- 4c. Activity. This is obviously the most important one. Your clan needs to be active, ingame and out-of-game. You might not want your forum to be a community hub, like VU's is. But there are other forums with high traffic, which you can make use of. You can keep active threads on server forums, and the official VC:MP forum, for increase visibility. You should also create an IRC or Discord channel, and make it interesting enough for people to want to join and contribute.
- 4d. Clan wars. Challenge other clans to wars. It doesn't matter if you lose, the point is you'll get better as you try, and your team will form stronger bonds through the process.
Step 5: Pick a rival
This one is optional, but can be very useful. If you pick a rival clan or group of players, you can really solidify the bonds between your team members, and add excitement to the game. Rivalries don't need to be bitter, or aggressive, although they can be. VU grew with several rivalries, first MK, then ULK, then DnA (sort of), then WK.
Step 6: Get ready to defend yourself and the clan
People are going to criticise you. Sometimes out of jealousy, sometimes out of elitism, sometimes because your members are acting like shitheads. The key point is, if you and your clan are acting in line with the clan's values, then you have nothing to be sorry for.
Over its history, VU has been criticised constantly. To begin with, people really hated that I was accepting newbies into the clan. They didn't like that I was disrupting the status quo, going against the elitism of the old clans. They couldn't understand my vision to be open and welcoming. Since then, we've been criticised for everything you can imagine.
Externally, you have to stand behind your clan members. They are your brothers. They might have fucked up, but you have to defend them to other people. And when people attack them, you bite back, within reason. Settle disputes internally, and if needed, kick them out.
Trust me, the criticism will never stop. You need to work out a way to deal with it that isn't too stressful for you, or antagonistic, or it will beat you.
Step 7: Discipline
You need to set clear rules for what is and isn't okay in the clan, and don't be afraid to kick people, as long as the kick is justified. If you say to a member when they're accepted 'Don't do X, Y and Z', and then they do X, Y and Z, then you are perfectly justified in getting rid of them.
This will likely happen a lot more in the beginning. I was constantly kicking people in the first couple of years. Because you're taking on newbies, you will find that they're not all ready. It is a process of sorting the wheat from the chaff.
Kick them in an unemotional way, avoid creating enemies by being too passionate. Simply state that they were told not to do X, Y and Z, and they did it anyway, therefore you need to remove them from the clan, and wish them the best of luck for their future.
Do not be afraid to kick people out, even if your membership numbers are low. Kicking people sends a message to everyone about what you're willing to accept, and what you're not. Over time, it reveals your clan values, and shows that you are serious about maintaining them.
Step 8: Keep growing
The title of this post is a bit misleading, because it implies that you can just 'make' a clan, and it therefore exists. Wrong. A clan is constantly being made, whether you're doing the making or not. The effort to continue making and remaking the clan simply doesn't go away. Hopefully, if you've followed the other steps, and put in the time and effort, you will have a bunch of clan members who take over responsibility for most of the making. I've happily been at the stage for years now, where I could walk away from VU, and it would continue to exist. My presence here simply isn't necessary any more. This is as good as you can hope for.
Don't let your ego get in the way of ceding power, passing responsibility onto others, and watching them take your baby and look after it, as it is theirs too now.
Likewise, although I've set out this post in 'steps', truthfully, you need to go through these steps over and over again. At several intervals in your clan history, you need to consider these steps and see if you are fulfilling them.
Step 9: Be ready for the tough times
I can guarantee you that things will get tough. There will be several periods of time when you want to give up, because things aren't working out. How you deal with this is up to you. If you want to give up, no one's going to blame you, as long as you gave it a good shot. But if you want to perservere, then you need to be ready to handle a lot of stress, a lot of negotiating, and a lot of effort.
Why?
Why make a clan at all? If it's so much effort, and so much time, then what's the point? Well it's the same reason we do anything hard, it's because it's rewarding. To create a community, and watch it grow, is an incredible feeling. You are passing on what you know to others in the game, you are helping the game you love stay alive, and you're hopefully finding time to have fun with it while it happens.
What now?
Like I said at the beginning of this post, I'm happy to give some more detailed advice to individuals who are polite, if I have time. I will probably add things to this post too - I've written it out in one go, and not reread or edited it, so it's bound to be missing points that I want to make, and it probably has some mistakes.
In any case, please share this post with anyone you think might be interested, clan leaders old and new. VC:MP relies on clans to stay alive, they keep the game interesting, and so I hope at least one or two people can take some of this advice and make something great.
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Cool, I'll make my own VU with whores and gambling!
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@Vatan
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Good work bro! :D
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Really helpful, great work!
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you did a fine job mate.
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omg who's going to read all of that, @SMD
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(https://i.imgur.com/fG9Elbw.jpg)
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Good job...
you got tired writing all of this stuff and so Your post deserves love.
Here is a nice message from me to enlighten your face with a smile :)
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Good job Charles! Just finished reading step 1, next step 2, brb.
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Vatan should owe his life to Charley now!
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I read all the above post except your charley and I trust on my friends comments, you wrote good things in your paragraph. gg
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Damn, this post of yours is really gold. I took the time to read everything calmly and to be honest, I don't know what to say just because is simply amazing. If I only could read this years ago when I ran a clan, things would be different or maybe to avoid being a clanhopper back in the days in 2012.
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3 'Winner' ratings before making the top 10 'winner' rated posts on the forum. I cry. Thanks for the kind words, guys.
Edit - thanks, whoever bumped the post over the line :p
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clan making guide on a clan site. hmmmmmmMmmm