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Author Topic: Multiple Bases  (Read 1163 times)

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aXXo

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Multiple Bases
« on: August 15, 2011, 02:53:20 pm »
Though I never liked the idea of team bases, but it looks like we cant live without them.
But still, I think we need to spread out the action more.
In the end, ViceWar was all about sprinting around in the base like a monkey, having 10 guys chasing you with M60s.
Also, too much crowded places is not a very good place to fight....
No-one likes to be backstabbed or caught in massive M60s, molotovs and rockets flying around.
I guess, everyone would love if they get a chance to actually fight and involve their skills, rather than simply running around the base...

So, In my opinion we should change the base system around.

Heres a suggestion :)
Multiple bases:
Each district would have a base. That makes-Downtown, Havana, Lil Haiti, Viceport, Escobar International, Washington Beach, Ocean Beach, Vicepoint.
8 bases in total.
Each team would start with 1 base.
Lets say: Red with Escobar, Blue with Vicepoint.
These are there default bases.

All other bases are neutral in start.
Each team can capture any base on the map by attacking it (by standing on the pickup for 10 secs) except the default bases.

Points:
No Offensive/Defensive bonuses. We should give freedom to players to choose their own fighting spot, rather than building up a system where you are forced to fight on the bases.
The team earns points on every kill.
Points = The number of bases the team is holding at that moment.
Example: Blue has 4 bases, Red has 3, 1 base is neutral.
That means for each kill by blue they get 4 points, whereas for each kill by red, they get 3 points.
Since you cant capture the default base, a team would always get at least 1 point for the kill.
It doesnt matter where you killed the person.

Spawns:
There should be atleast 30 random spawn points on each base.
A player can choose his spawn district by /c setspawn <district name>
Or a simple /c setspawn and the district gets selected by his position.
Players can only spawn in a district if their team have captured it.
If the team loses the spawn district after the players have setted it, the players spawn at their default base.

Pros:
Spread out the fight more.
Most importantly it would reduce FPS lag.
More strategical than before. Stealth becomes more important.
Teams cant complain about the enemy base being better or anything. They have the chance to capture any base they choose. So it is fair to both.

Obviously the team with less coordination would fail hard at this.
Coz both teams would need dedicated players for each bases.
And the more bases you have, the harder to defend them :)

So whatd'ya think?

« Last Edit: August 16, 2011, 04:08:51 pm by aXXo »
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NewK

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suggestons for next vice war?
« Reply #1 on: August 15, 2011, 04:19:43 pm »
I think CoLa's idea can be implemented.
There are many players who are not very fond of stubby butt-raping, so there would be something for them to do.



Though I never liked the idea of team bases, but it looks like we cant live without them.
But still, I think we need to spread out the action more.
In the end, ViceWar was all about sprinting around in the base like a monkey, having 10 guys chasing you with M60s.
Also, too much crowded places is not a very good place to fight....
No-one likes to be backstabbed or caught in massive M60s, molotovs and rockets flying around.
I guess, everyone would love if they get a chance to actually fight and involve their skills, rather than simply running around the base...

So, In my opinion we should change the base system around.

Heres a suggestion :)
Multiple bases:
Each district would have a base. That makes-Downtown, Havana, Lil Haiti, Viceport, Escobar International, Washington Beach, Ocean Beach, Vicepoint.
8 bases in total.
Each team would start with 1 base.
Lets say: Red with Escobar, Blue with Vicepoint.
These are there default bases.

All other bases are neutral in start.
Each team can capture any base on the map by attacking it (by standing on the pickup for 10 secs) except the default bases.

Points:
No Offensive/Defensive bonuses. We should give freedom to players to choose their own fighting spot, rather than building up a system where you are forced to fight on the bases.
The team earns points on every kill.
Points = The number of bases the team is holding at that moment.
Example: Blue has 4 bases, Red has 3, 1 base is neutral.
That means for each kill by blue they get 4 points, whereas for each kill by red, they get 3 points.
Since you cant capture the default base, a team would always get at least 1 point for the kill.
It doesnt matter where you killed the person.

Spawns:
There should be atleast 30 random spawn points on each base.
A player can choose his spawn district by /c setspawn <district name>
Or a simple /c setspawn and the district gets selected by his position.
Players can only spawn in a district if their team have captured it.
If the team loses the spawn district after the players have setted it, the players spawn at their default base.

Pros:
Spread out the fight more.
Most importantly it would reduce FPS lag.
More strategical than before. Stealth becomes more important.
Teams cant complain about the enemy base being better or anything. They have the chance to capture any base they choose. So it is fair to both.

Obviously the team with less coordination would fail hard at this.
Coz both teams would need dedicated players for each bases.
And the more bases you have, the harder to defend them :)

So whatd'ya think?
I agree with absolutely everything you said, it would be much more fun to have that bases system impletmented.
All of what you said = How battlefield games work. And i do love battlefield.

But like anything, there is pros and cons and as you pointed out the pros, let me point out the cons:

-The fast paced gameplay and all the action would be cut, like those big fights between a huge amount of players

-If a team was outnumbered for only couple of minutes, it would make the other team's lead in points impossible or almost impossible for the other team to reach.

-There is not enough players to defend/attack so many bases i believe even if the server was full and with the same amount of players per team it wouldn't be enough, this would be awesome if there was a 100 slots server, unfortunately that is not possible in vcmp and even if it was i doubt the playercount would be that high.

Maybe someday when 0.4 gets released (if it ever does) and there's a bigger playercount on vcmp this could be achieved.
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TazZ

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suggestons for next vice war?
« Reply #2 on: August 15, 2011, 04:29:16 pm »
i cant agree more with axxo.
multiple bases will give everyone a good fight and a better entertainment to both red and blue players.

that will solve some of the lag problem too
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aXXo

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Re: Multiple Bases
« Reply #3 on: August 16, 2011, 04:09:15 pm »
Changed the title  :)
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ULK.HeAD

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Re: Multiple Bases
« Reply #4 on: August 16, 2011, 04:33:02 pm »
this sounds like a sorta good idea to help stop a winning side from just turtling up and holding their points, and it sounds like a good way to allow a small and outnumbered team to sneak around and gather up some points and fight the enemy guerilla style..
though my main fear is that with a system like this the game would turn into more of who could sneak around capturing bases more than who can fight and win the positions.

personally, I think a change like this would be more suited for creating another event entirely, rather than changing the vice wars... I think it opens up way too many scoring and balancing options that could be addressed and need to be addressed that would really make it a different event that you couldn't really call vice wars 3 imo...
I think the vice wars worked out very nicely for what it was supposed to be anyway, it's just hard for some people including me to really accept that part of the competition was making sure your team had as many active players as possible or suffer the consequences..
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aXXo

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Re: Multiple Bases
« Reply #5 on: August 16, 2011, 06:16:37 pm »
When i originally thought about the Vicewar idea...I was thinking more on Guerrilla warfare and stealth combat lines.
Because, the new players coming to VCMP find it easier to adopt to these strategies.
So there are players who prefer this type of combat rather than 1v1 stubby raping ( especially RPG fags like me :D )

But I agree that we need to balance the gameplay that suits the style of as many players as possible.

I personally didnt like the type of combat that happened at the bases.
It was too over-crowded.
The only thing feasible for attackers was to sprint around the base like a monkey while shooting backshots and potshots whenever possible.
And the only thing defenders did was chase that monkey with the M60.
Then somebody decided to use a molotov or a rocket launcher....and the fun ends :D

That was happening in 80% of the gameplay when it involved any one of the bases.
And, Im sure no-one liked it...the guy who died surely hated it :D
I personally preferred to gather some men to fight away from bases, but it was not so helpful....I could easily get more points by doing the same effort near a base.
So technically, the scripts force players to fight near a base.
Whereas Im talking about freedom to fight in any area you prefer.

-There is not enough players to defend/attack so many bases i believe even if the server was full and with the same amount of players per team it wouldn't be enough, this would be awesome if there was a 100 slots server, unfortunately that is not possible in vcmp and even if it was i doubt the playercount would be that high.
True that.
I guess maybe we can have 5 bases.
That is, Downtown: Blue, Escobar:Red
Neutral bases: Viceport, Havana, Haiti.
World bounds can block off the other islands, so players dont get lost :)

-If a team was outnumbered for only couple of minutes, it would make the other team's lead in points impossible or almost impossible for the other team to reach.
Whatever changes we make in ViceWar.....quantity will always prevail over quality.
The teams will never be unbalanced with quality factor.
Each clan has good quality players. The deciding factor will always be quantity :)

If a team captures more bases, consequently it is harder for them to defend them
They will have to scatter their defense around the map...which may lead to causalities and drastic drop in points.

Remember that, outnumbering is not about having more participants. It is about correct positioning.
A compact squad with good teamwork and cooperation prevails :)


-The fast paced gameplay and all the action would be cut, like those big fights between a huge amount of players
I actually consider it as a pro.
The fast pace action would definitely exist, but we would miss out on over-crowded fights...which imo is a good thing :)
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ULK.HeAD

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Re: Multiple Bases
« Reply #6 on: August 16, 2011, 08:20:06 pm »
well, I can tell ya right now that you would not see the same sort of turnout for a sneak around and steal the base icons with minimal contact sorta thing...


what about just reversing the scoring for defenders so that they get 4 point kills at the perimeter of the base with 1 point at the icon, maybe with some more powerful ranged weapons(ammo for m60 and m4) in play so that there aren't so many people forced into stubby teams to get cash or ammo?

I think it would help alleviate some of the balancing factors which contribute to players ganging up 10v1 inside the center of the base, and it would help spread players out around the bases more as well as enable others to strike out and attack rather than sit back at home with the stubby squad trying to get ammo or money, or even worse forcing them to try and attack a defended base with a cash strapped stubby team..

defenders would get more points by taking care of incoming attacks at the perimeter where they must be more spread apart to cover flanks, if the attack makes it to the center of the base or the icon where the defenders are most concentrated the defenders get less points for killing the attackers, making the attackers scoring more effective.
instead of red team sitting back waiting for blue to enter the meat grinder... we'd have to intelligently respond to their attacks from the get go and stop them from reaching the icon earlier, instead of hoping they come to the icon for more easy kills at the hands of our massive stubby poverty squad. with defense at the icon being less effective for scoring than attacking the enemy, we'd see less stalemate mexican standoff shit and more risk being taken by the dominant side.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2011, 08:26:56 pm by ULK.HeAD »
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aXXo

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Re: Multiple Bases
« Reply #7 on: August 16, 2011, 08:46:58 pm »
Sounds good to me. Better than what we've had so far.
But what about kills far away from either base?



But, that is another thing....you are talking about the points system.
Im trying to get 'Multiple bases' implemented  :P

The objective:
To increase the strategic placing of players.
I wanna make this more of a brain game, where people have to predict the moves of the enemies and act.
Like in World Wars, where generals hold up a big chart map and point at it with a cue, while the soldiers eat his bullshit :D
Currently, you dont have to think much, there are hardly any decisions to make.
You always know that the pickup is the place where they are ultimately gonna come
Everyone is gonna wait for them there.

Whereas in multiple bases...you gotta have scouts, intel on where the enemy attacks.
Coz no team knows which base requires more attention and what is waiting for them there :P
That suspense would add thrills to the event i guess.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2011, 08:52:20 pm by aXXo »
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