Vice Underdogs

Archive => Vice War VII: Biker Brawl => Archived Events => General Discussions => Topic started by: GangstaRas on June 03, 2018, 10:07:53 am

Title: About Jitter System
Post by: GangstaRas on June 03, 2018, 10:07:53 am
I see a lot of people (mainly Pakistani players with bad internet) upset about this system but fail to follow instructions so I hope to shed some light on the situation and why it's implemented.



Reason why it's implemented:


In recent months, we've seen a new variation of hacking where through ping adjustments via internet load people are effectively lag switching. These lag switches are done in quick succession, typically at vulnerable points in combat (knocked down, outnumbered and so on).

Now under normal scripting  circumstances, if ping limits were strict, it would be enough to actively kick you when you spike over, however, internet connections are not 100% stable and will present some micro-jitters that are mere milliseconds in duration. These micro-jitters can spike as high as 1000 ms ping but they are so short in duration, they do not affect gameplay. The script however will not ignore it and will kick you for it (such was the case for VW6 private beta). As a result, every server that you see has a ping limit system, uses an average to deduce your ping in order to avoid that strict kick. There are disadvantages to averages however.

You witness it all the time, people with 600 ms ping, 1000 ms ping and for some unknown reason the server takes awhile to kick them, happens on EAD, happens on CTF, happens on LW happens for all of the servers with ping limits. Why does that happen? Because of average. Example:

Ping limit of a server is 350 ms; player ping goes like this for 5 seconds:

Code: [Select]
40,400,500,600,40
The average ping of this person is 316 ms, he does not get kicked, but he sure evaded some shots for 3 seconds with the 400, 500 and 600 ping spikes.

Example 2:

Code: [Select]
200,400,500,250,320
This person averages 334 ms, will not get kicked but they are clearly unstable and clearly unhittable as a result.

That is the problem with averages.

And unfortunately, the greater the amount of samples the script take to calculate the average ping, the more damaging the effect it has on the average.

High ping held for 1 second is enough for hackers and exploiters to use lag spikes to their advantage. What the laggers do is spike for short duration of seconds so that they are essentially unhittable, then they will spike down to their normal ping the moment they plan to attack. If you don't believe me, if you can spectate on the server, go on EAD or CTF, spectate a problematic player you can't hit and have F5 continually pressed and watch their ping the whole time. When they run around and get knocked down, they spike to 500 to 700 ms, the minute they attack, their back to 150s 180s, whatever their normal ping should be.



I won't allow the exploitation to get any further and the community is frankly tired of this area of instability to gameplay, thus ping jitter is calculated to prevent these exploits and provide everyone fair game. It is what cleans up what ping limit cannot by nature of being forced to use average. It takes the samples of the average ping calculated and deduce the standard deviation of the results. If your deviation is small you won't have much issues but if your deviations are high, you will be flagged for a kick.

We take a calculated result every 5 seconds at a sample rate of 1 per second. I have found that deviations 50 ms+ and greater tend to be enough to cause problems in gameplay and so, the standard deviation value is aimed around keeping jitter range of 50 ms or lower. A standard deviation of 15 achieved this, unfortunately it was for momentary spikes, so a better deviation value is 25 to 30. An example that gives a result of within 25 - 30 is:

Code: [Select]
200,241,253,250,202
It was my intention to remain at that level more or less for the beta I have gone as high as 45 and people still getting kicked. This is what a standard deviation of 45 in your ping looks like:

Code: [Select]
203,286,289,245,192
Nearly 100 ms permitted spikes, and by this point you're fighting all that lagging power.



What to do?

For those affected, you all need to understand that if you stand still when the warning message comes up, you will NOT be kicked. You can move as soon as the message disappears from the screen but sometimes that glitches out so stay still for at least 3 seconds and you're ok.

It is the same with FPS and ping, as long as you stay still, you can be in the server with 20k ping, 2 FPS and jittering like crazy, you wont be kicked, but the minute you move, you will get one of the 3 warnings. It's the same as it was in VW6, you had to stop moving if you wanted to avoid FPS and ping kick then. This is the fair trade that you have to comply with. Even when low pingers spike within ping limits (from 40 to 200 ms ping) it still has a profound effect on registering the shot you just made on them. If they're moving and spiking like that, they can avoid any and everything, but if they stop moving you have your right to kill. It is unfair that you the lagger can kill your opponent spiking carefree. Please fix your internet and get stable connections. If that cannot be done, please remain still in-game or be autokicked.
Title: Re: About Jitter System
Post by: Sevrin on June 03, 2018, 11:03:42 am
I played like two hours. Got kicked likes 3 times for ping jitter issue, 16/15, 17/15 and 19/15. Like that, current jitter limit is 15, it is way too less, can you please increase it a little, like 30?
Title: Re: About Jitter System
Post by: GangstaRas on June 03, 2018, 02:43:16 pm
I played like two hours. Got kicked likes 3 times for ping jitter issue, 16/15, 17/15 and 19/15. Like that, current jitter limit is 15, it is way too less, can you please increase it a little, like 30?

I did set it to 30 a couple hours ago, so unless someone changed it or the server crashed and restarted (and reapplied 15 as default atm).

Be that as it may, I did even set to 100 which allows ungodly spikes and people still getting kicked. My closing point was if you see the warning you MUST stop. 15 has no power over you if you stop.
Title: Re: About Jitter System
Post by: Sevrin on June 03, 2018, 07:16:29 pm
I played like two hours. Got kicked likes 3 times for ping jitter issue, 16/15, 17/15 and 19/15. Like that, current jitter limit is 15, it is way too less, can you please increase it a little, like 30?
I get your point. But the limit 16/15 is not really better. Most of Pakis(even few other countries too including Latin america), setting it a bit higher won't hurt "that much".

I did set it to 30 a couple hours ago, so unless someone changed it or the server crashed and restarted (and reapplied 15 as default atm).

Be that as it may, I did even set to 100 which allows ungodly spikes and people still getting kicked. My closing point was if you see the warning you MUST stop. 15 has no power over you if you stop.
Title: Re: About Jitter System
Post by: koray on June 03, 2018, 08:13:15 pm
One question,

Does that "standing still" mean I just stand and not shoot or standing still and shooting?
Title: Re: About Jitter System
Post by: GangstaRas on June 03, 2018, 08:19:12 pm
One question,

Does that "standing still" mean I just stand and not shoot or standing still and shooting?

You can stand and shoot, as long as you remain in place
Title: Re: About Jitter System
Post by: KILLERX. on June 04, 2018, 07:03:08 pm
not a problem its good 15 is also fine
Title: Re: About Jitter System
Post by: Klaus on June 10, 2018, 10:45:43 pm
I played like two hours. Got kicked likes 3 times for ping jitter issue
I seem to remember you being kicked multiple times during the last Vice War? I think you just have to accept your internet connection is horrid.
Title: Re: About Jitter System
Post by: #Wr#blix# on June 11, 2018, 04:18:02 pm
multiple times

(https://i.imgur.com/1BUyKB7.png)



(https://i.imgur.com/flFsX05.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/cVV5B6v.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/pQB1ZjW.png)
Title: Re: About Jitter System
Post by: GoRcEE on June 11, 2018, 09:50:53 pm
Get a stable connection else like mobile 4G. You could disallow your family mates for 1 day to use internet for a reason. Seems not leggit but believe me try stable 4g.

I've many problems of changing internet now I use 4G and found no ping jitter spike in vw server.
Title: Re: About Jitter System
Post by: WiLsOn on June 12, 2018, 06:14:19 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/PGqg4XU.jpg)
Title: Re: About Jitter System
Post by: Zkq on June 13, 2018, 07:11:53 pm
Its a bit stupid to get kicked for 301/300 ping. Maybe you can set limit kick higher to give chances for players to fix their connections.
Title: Re: About Jitter System
Post by: GangstaRas on June 13, 2018, 10:35:48 pm
Its a bit stupid to get kicked for 301/300 ping

By your logic, it will be infinitely stupid to get kicked for x ping, therefore it would be stupid to have any ping limit. Example:

Ping limit 300
301 & 310 pingers complain
New limit 310
311 & 320 pingers complain
New limit 320
321 & 330 pingers complain...

And it goes on and on till we find ourselves at impractical levels we didn't sign up for.

Maybe you can set limit kick higher to give chances for players to fix their connections.

Paradox to your first statement
Title: Re: About Jitter System
Post by: Zkq on June 14, 2018, 01:43:08 am
I do agree with this point but,
Isn't getting kicked consequently more than once  leading us to auto ban? Or im wrong? ( just to know)
Title: Re: About Jitter System
Post by: Vedder on June 14, 2018, 01:52:11 am
I do agree with this point but,
Isn't getting kicked consequently more than once  leading us to auto ban? Or im wrong? ( just to know)
An administrator will decide based on his own and other admins judgement if banning the user or not, depending on, i.e, if an user is getting kicked lot of times and keeps constantly trying to play, he could be banned.

But i think there's no such thing as an autoban.
Title: Re: About Jitter System
Post by: aXXo on June 14, 2018, 03:15:04 am
Tip: The script does not even check your ping/FPS if you are standing still.
(Car surfing is not standing still)

The ping warning waits for 5 seconds before a kick. All you need to do to avoid a kick is release your keyboard until the warning disappears.
Title: Re: About Jitter System
Post by: GangstaRas on June 14, 2018, 05:32:05 am
I do agree with this point but,
Isn't getting kicked consequently more than once  leading us to auto ban? Or im wrong? ( just to know)

There's no auto-ban to the system. That's at the discretion of the admins, of which shouldn't be exercised quickly as it can be a fine line between fair and admin abuse. Someone being banned from the event will more likely stem from multiple reports against him accompanying the myriads of auto-kicks beforehand from lag.
Title: Re: About Jitter System
Post by: Silent on June 14, 2018, 08:35:05 am
Ping limit should stay at 300 because if your having over 300 ping its obvious that your gonna be harder to kill than someone below 200 ping. and this is obviously unfair  :'(
Title: Re: About Jitter System
Post by: aikon on June 14, 2018, 09:58:27 am
I found a lot of information in this thread, thank you very much for that and I appreciate it :)
Title: Re: About Jitter System
Post by: mairee on June 14, 2018, 08:47:58 pm
I found a lot of information in this thread, thank you very much for that and I appreciate it :)
._. post increase excuse?
Title: Re: About Jitter System
Post by: Milko on June 14, 2018, 09:13:20 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/zstsLXN.png)

Pakistan Comms be going hard on you
Title: Re: About Jitter System
Post by: PunkNoodle on June 14, 2018, 10:08:48 pm
I found a lot of information in this thread, thank you very much for that and I appreciate it :)
._. post increase excuse?
They are just spam bots