[ON] clan - a bunch of cheaters?

[Sora_Blue]

Q: What do we usually do when we find out that a clan has been distributing hacks?
A: We don't know, this is the first time this has happened. Which means it's time to make a decision.

This has happend before, look at PLK/PKG that was lead by Nadeem. Both got clan banned on XE and SvM.

[stormeus]

It should also be noted that "Smoke2jointS" is actually a user from Pakistan.

Nice plan by some paki fag to keep us in trouble.

[Charley]

I don't think any of the solutions to this problem posted here are satisfactory.

Here is my proposition - it is not perfect, but I think it is more suitable:

Make a list of those people who we know satisfy any of the following criteria:

1) Distributed hacks
2) Used the hacks
3) Were aware of the distribution or use of hacks, and didn't say anything.

This list can be presumed to automatically include all of ON management, but not all ON players.

The punishment should be the following:

1) 1 year ban for everyone on this list, in all abiding servers. After 1 year, these players are only allowed to play in abiding servers if they are clanless. If they create or join a new clan, they will be prohibited from playing.
2) Disallow players who belong to a clan managed by any of these players from playing, permanently. So, for instance, if Hunting creates a new clan, [OT], and John joins OT, John will not be allowed to play in any abiding server whilst being a member of OT. If he leaves OT, he can play again. This also means that no current innocent ON players can play until they leave ON.

The logic underpinning this punishment:

1) It is unfair to ban players who may not have been aware of the distribution or use of hacks.
2) The leaders of ON and the others on the list have abused the informal clan system to damage the game and community.
3) If only ON is banned, the players in its management can just make a new clan, and cause damage again.
4) Therefore a suitable punishment for them would be not just to remove their clan, but to remove their ability to ever make a clan again, or ever be part of one.
5) This truly punishes those responsible, while not allowing their foolishness to ruin the game for those in ON who are innocent.

Problems with this plan:

1) The list we make will be limited, as we cannot be fully aware of who has or did what. This is unavoidable, but it is better that we miss one or two than we unnecessarily punish one or two. The remaining, non-banned ex-ON players can be put on a 'watchlist' for server admins.

2) ON management might evade this punishment by changing their names, IPs, and online identities. Sadly this is a problem that all forms of banning are susceptible to in VC:MP - it is not unique to this situation.

3) This plan is more complicated than just banning ON, it might be hard getting servers all on board. Yes, it is a little complicated. But we as a community have to be as determined to prevent hacking as those who wish to perpetrate it, otherwise the bad guys will win. Fortunately there is at least one admin from every major server who has posted in this thread, and in most cases server management have posted here too.

[Castagna]

Q: What do we usually do when we find out that a clan has been distributing hacks?
A: We don't know, this is the first time this has happened. Which means it's time to make a decision.

This has happend before, look at PLK/PKG that was lead by Nadeem. Both got clan banned on XE and SvM.

They were pretty much banned on everywhere, also on EA. After this, PLK/PKG eventually died.

[NewK]

Q: What do we usually do when we find out that a clan has been distributing hacks?
A: We don't know, this is the first time this has happened. Which means it's time to make a decision.

This has happend before, look at PLK/PKG that was lead by Nadeem. Both got clan banned on XE and SvM.

Ah, you're right, I did not even remember this.

Even more reasons then for them to receive a similar treament. Although we can still say it's the first time a clan has been caught using, distributing and creating hacks, all at the same time. So they actually did worse than PLK/PKG.

It should also be noted that "Smoke2jointS" is actually a user from Pakistan.

Nice plan by some paki fag to keep us in trouble.

This just keeps getting better by the day.

[MaDKilleR]

Nice plan by some paki fag to keep us in trouble.

Edit by Charley - this was in fact Kamran impersonating Smoke2joints

In that case, all you really need to do is to ban the people who were caught, just like you can see R4EVER in video, I'm pretty much sure that some players in the clan were not even aware about those hacks since it appears like they are sharing hacks in PM. Leave those chumps who aren't involved.

Blitz how dare you used my avatar here?

[HunTinG]

This also means that no current innocent ON players can play until they leave ON.

What can I say?
Nothing much than I don't agree.
Why not go with the rule 'ban on sight' ?
These hacks were made for 'testing', and somehow were given to 'disloyal'.Then these 'disloyal' starting making the truth look different,which is wrong - I've said I knew ANO is working on hacks. - Didn't mean I did not have any attempt on stopping him,on the contrary, you can see ANO is very involvish in 'game sync' and 'functions' and would like to test it all,he just didn't give up.
These hacks were not designed to be shared with ON members,neither, but ANO rebelled and gave his work to the soldiers.

Nothing much can be said,other than the fact WE know that you'll do even your impossible,because you DO NOT want us to play in any server,you can deduce it from your own words.

[stormeus]

These hacks were made for 'testing', and somehow were given to 'disloyal'.

The excuses coming from you guys are arguably worse than the fact that this was going on. Your excuse is saying "Hey we made/got some hacks that prevent people from shooting you and let you see through walls and you can have them, but it's only for testing. ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-)"

These hacks were not designed to be shared with ON members,neither, but ANO rebelled and gave his work to the soldiers.

And when was ANO reprimanded? Did you bother reporting the fact that this happened to anyone? What happened with the ON members who obtained these hacks and used them? Obviously nothing because there are video recordings of people with the ON tag using them to hide walls and shoot through them.

[Thomas]

Thomas, did you really just quote yourself to say you explained that well?

Actually, i realized that later, but i wasn't impersonating anyone.

[Deadmau5]

It should also be noted that "Smoke2jointS" is actually a user from Pakistan.

Nice plan by some paki fag to keep us in trouble.

[AdrenAline]

ON which clan members were banned? because I have seen several of them enter the server with other nicks ....

[HunTinG]

These hacks were made for 'testing', and somehow were given to 'disloyal'.

The excuses coming from you guys are arguably worse than the fact that this was going on. Your excuse is saying "Hey we made/got some hacks that prevent people from shooting you and let you see through walls and you can have them, but it's only for testing. ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-)"

These hacks were not designed to be shared with ON members,neither, but ANO rebelled and gave his work to the soldiers.

And when was ANO reprimanded? Did you bother reporting the fact that this happened to anyone? What happened with the ON members who obtained these hacks and used them? Obviously nothing because there are video recordings of people with the ON tag using them to hide walls and shoot through them.

What I mean is,ON CLAN isn't the only one having these hacks.
These stuff was also shared to some other guys(according to KxZ' distribution),for example chernobyl , or 'KF' clan (Tom can provide proof)
What matters is,if these hacks at least WON'T be blocked,then the others will freely use them in Deathmatch gamemode, and if so,they can use these with bit of 'intelligence'.

I apologize for everything that's public,hacks created by 'our clan' , and mostly for the inability to control ON members' willing of 'use these hacks' and providing links to them,
anyway, Stormeus,why didn't you even care when Tom sent all this stuff to you, never gave any bit of  time for looking at it and blocking it?

[ferrari32]

It should also be noted that "Smoke2jointS" is actually a user from Pakistan.

Nice plan by some paki fag to keep us in trouble.

It's clearly his brother.. doh..
On a side note, it's quite funny that these guys managed to suck pretty heavily even with those hacks lol

[WiLsOn]

I'm just trying to figure out why he would use Smoke2joints nick in it lol, as far as i know Smoke2joints won't even take 1 sec to ban all of these cocksuckers.

[stormeus]

What I mean is,ON CLAN isn't the only one having these hacks.

Not an excuse.

These stuff was also shared to some other guys(according to KxZ' distribution),for example chernobyl , or 'KF' clan (Tom can provide proof)
What matters is,if these hacks at least WON'T be blocked,then the others will freely use them in Deathmatch gamemode, and if so,they can use these with bit of 'intelligence'.

Put up some conclusive proof and they'll be dealt with equally.

anyway, Stormeus,why didn't you even care when Tom sent all this stuff to you, never gave any bit of  time for looking at it and blocking it?

You mean like this set of changes, which I definitely didn't write, to the VC:MP code to try and fix the ASI issue, which I definitely didn't investigate at any point?



You know what the problem with any of the code I've written related to blocking ASI loading and hacks like this is? It either always breaks something else that's critical for VC:MP to work, or is extremely insufficient. The last time we pushed this kind of code into production, half the playerbase failed to connect to any servers and we had to undo that fix. This has been a recurring issue that I have always been looking into. You have absolutely no right to tell me what I haven't been working on in a codebase that you have zero access to.