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Author Topic: Banathon 2k18  (Read 6535 times)

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Zeeshan.Bhatti

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Re: Re: Legend has been kicked from VU.
« Reply #30 on: May 10, 2018, 03:20:20 pm »
Really unexpected idk what to say, gl btw.
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krystianoo

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Re: Re: Legend has been kicked from VU.
« Reply #31 on: May 10, 2018, 03:37:01 pm »
To summarize, our means are justified by our purpose.

You need to visit the doctor.

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They interpret the law, assess the evidence presented, and control how hearings and trials unfold in their courtrooms. Most important of all, judges are impartial decision-makers in the pursuit of justice. We have what is known as an adversarial system of justice - legal cases are contests between opposing sides, which ensures that evidence and legal arguments will be fully and forcefully presented. - The judge is the "trier of fact," deciding whether the evidence is credible and which witnesses are telling the truth. Then the judge applies the law to these facts to determine whether a civil claim has been established on a balance of probabilities or whether there is proof beyond a reasonable doubt, in criminal cases, that the suspect is guilty.

These are examples of roles of the judge. If you're admin and don't know how to judge, then you are nothing to judge.

I agree.

Do any of you messiahs remember that Server Reports are a public board to give the accused a chance to defend oneself?
And so the community can know why?

Otherwise, why would they exist? Might as well make reports PM-only.

Make no mistake, I do trust Ras's judgement. But I don't trust anyone, not even Tommis, Stormeus, maxorator or whoever else you can come up with to make a decision that bans more than a hundred players from the game (or - 25% of the community as you say) without providing any evidence.

If you make such a decision, don't call it justice.

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What do you have to fear if you know you're innocent?
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everyone innocent have nothing to fear.

These are the same sentences uttered by people who are okay with the government invading their privacy - because if you don't have anything to hide, why worry, why have a problem?

This is no different than saying I don't care about free speech because I have nothing to say.

I hope that the community won't turn a blind eye on this: a few years back banning someone with no evidence for something as serious as cheating would result in the admin being demoted, warned (or whatever) and the banned player being unbanned.

How can anyone in the community consider player X a cheater when the evidence of his transgressions was not even provided to anyone except for some super-duper anti-cheat inner circle? How?

For those who do not question these decisions, how?

How can you consider ANYONE from that 100 of players Gangstaras was speaking about a cheater if it wasn't even proven to you? How?

Will you start showing your displeasure or start requesting evidence when they ban more than a ¼ of the playercount? More than a ⅓? More than a half?
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Dr.Shawn

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Re: Re: Legend has been kicked from VU.
« Reply #32 on: May 10, 2018, 04:09:18 pm »
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Will you start showing your displeasure or start requesting evidence when they ban more than a ¼ of the playercount? More than a ⅓? More than a half?
I guess that would be the perfect timing :D
And why do you worry so much Mr.Nice ?
Every time there is some hacking activity, you always want to get your highlights and showing how nice you are ?
Chill out bro, a liar will never accept that he lied.
Even if we post the proof here, than what is the guarantee that they will accept their crimes ? What if they claim that it's a false proof ?
But I can assure you that they will find an alternative way to bypass our method in some time.
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GangstaRas

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Re: Re: Legend has been kicked from VU.
« Reply #33 on: May 10, 2018, 04:29:04 pm »
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Will you start showing your displeasure or start requesting evidence when they ban more than a ¼ of the playercount? More than a ⅓? More than a half?
Even if we post the proof here, than what is the guarantee that they will accept their crimes ? What if they claim that it's a false proof ?
But I can assure you that they will find an alternative way to bypass our method in some time.

Thank you very much.

Also, the reason why the number of hackers caught is so high is because believe it or not, this is the true nature of some among the VCMP community. Among the 300 to 400 or so that exist in the community, there are still 2 types of people:

Those who don't hack because its not in their nature to, and many more who don't hack because they fear getting caught.

When the cats are away, the mice will play.
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krystianoo

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Re: Re: Legend has been kicked from VU.
« Reply #34 on: May 10, 2018, 04:40:50 pm »
Quote
Will you start showing your displeasure or start requesting evidence when they ban more than a ¼ of the playercount? More than a ⅓? More than a half?
Even if we post the proof here, than what is the guarantee that they will accept their crimes ? What if they claim that it's a false proof ?
But I can assure you that they will find an alternative way to bypass our method in some time.

Thank you very much.

Also, the reason why the number of hackers caught is so high is because believe it or not, this is the true nature of some among the VCMP community. Among the 300 to 400 or so that exist in the community, there are still 2 types of people:

Those who don't hack because its not in their nature to, and many more who don't hack because they fear getting caught.

When the cats are away, the mice will play.

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Even if we post the proof here, than what is the guarantee that they will accept their crimes ? What if they claim that it's a false proof ?

How can they claim it's a "false proof" if you yourself stated this:

No ban was given out of mere logs like some key press. If you're banned, at least two evidence is against you, some of which are evidence I recorded myself

Even better, how can releasing the proof compromise any of your methods if none of them [bans] were given out for mere logs?

Just how? Do you not want players to know how to catch hackers more easily?

Outside of that, who cares if they say that it still is false proof?

If you say it proves everything beyond reasonable doubt then everyone (the community) will see that the ban(s) is valid and isn't just some made up fantasy.

If 400 people tell you the evidence looks sketchy though then it's safe to say your evidence doesn't prove a cheating offense beyond reasonable doubt. Like it should, per all rules and standards.
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GangstaRas

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Re: Re: Legend has been kicked from VU.
« Reply #35 on: May 10, 2018, 04:59:55 pm »

How can they claim it's a "false proof" if you yourself stated this:

No ban was given out of mere logs like some key press. If you're banned, at least two evidence is against you, some of which are evidence I recorded myself

Because that's what people do. We see it all the time. A man murders his wife and kids and everything recorded on video tape, only to go into the courtroom to claim innocence on the count that he is mentally unstable. I'm seeing it with Legend as we speak with the mix-up with him and HunTinG in his account and all manner of garbage filled lies to me.

Even better, how can releasing the proof compromise any of your methods if none of them [bans] were given out for mere logs?

Just how? Do you not want players to know how to catch hackers more easily?

No because you yourself iterated not trust anyone, so why bring this point up? Situational ethics?

Outside of that, who cares if they say that it still is false proof?

If you say it proves everything beyond reasonable doubt then everyone (the community) will see that the ban(s) is valid and isn't just some made up fantasy.

Situational ethics again? Because if you're saying this, you pretty much agree then that I need not state a thing because I know and those involved know it is true. The evidence is there on them, but if publishing the evidences damages the effectiveness, why then publish? Just to prove that we're speaking the truth? All the while putting us back into square one hunting down hackers? I rather not have to subject myself to make a list like this every year going forward, that is madness. Prevention is better than cure, and I'm not gonna be the one trying to find a cure, I'm acting on the prevention side.

If 400 people tell you the evidence looks sketchy though then it's safe to say your evidence doesn't prove a cheating offense beyond reasonable doubt. Like it should, per all rules and standards.

Believing this in life will get you killed because that's believing in quantity over quality. If 400 liars speak the same thing against 1 person speaking the truth, does that change the fact that what they said or what they believe is a lie? Nope. All it is is that you have 400 people lying about a person. If I take it on a personal level, the community believes SS is full of hackers, but you among yourselves within SS know the truth. Who's speaking truth? The community or SS? By your logic, the community.

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Sevrin

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Re: Re: Legend has been kicked from VU.
« Reply #36 on: May 10, 2018, 05:04:09 pm »
Representing ead staff here, just a small thing everyone has already said that if we share the evidence of players using aimlock, then it will be just a few days for those hackers(or developers of hackers) to get rid of the method we've used to get evidence on them. The method was tested several times, it was completely successful & pure method to know whose using any kind of hacks or not. Talking about justice, even if ead staff finds any member of my clan or any of my closest friends, I would be the first one to command the ban without accusing because I know that what & how is the evidence.

It will not harm the community by any means man. as Shawn said, if you hack then you know that you hack & you get banned for it, then don't come to ask evidence because you cannot prove yourself innocent by any means because the evidence is crystal clear that's all I can say.

If you guys don't understand this, then you're UPTO a new scene to create which will definitely end up in a way that hackers/developers(?) will get benefited from that. I'm sure you don't want that to happen? Do you?
« Last Edit: May 10, 2018, 05:06:21 pm by Sevrin »
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Question to Stormeus: Where is TRC forums? We didn't even had a proper farewell because of you. :( :( :(

krystianoo

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Re: Re: Legend has been kicked from VU.
« Reply #37 on: May 10, 2018, 05:23:36 pm »

How can they claim it's a "false proof" if you yourself stated this:

No ban was given out of mere logs like some key press. If you're banned, at least two evidence is against you, some of which are evidence I recorded myself

Because that's what people do. We see it all the time. A man murders his wife and kids and everything recorded on video tape, only to go into the courtroom to claim innocence on the count that he is mentally unstable. I'm seeing it with Legend as we speak with the mix-up with him and HunTinG in his account and all manner of garbage filled lies to me.

Even better, how can releasing the proof compromise any of your methods if none of them [bans] were given out for mere logs?

Just how? Do you not want players to know how to catch hackers more easily?

No because you yourself iterated not trust anyone, so why bring this point up? Situational ethics?

Outside of that, who cares if they say that it still is false proof?

If you say it proves everything beyond reasonable doubt then everyone (the community) will see that the ban(s) is valid and isn't just some made up fantasy.

Situational ethics again? Because if you're saying this, you pretty much agree then that I need not state a thing because I know and those involved know it is true. The evidence is there on them, but if publishing the evidences damages the effectiveness, why then publish? Just to prove that we're speaking the truth? All the while putting us back into square one hunting down hackers? I rather not have to subject myself to make a list like this every year going forward, that is madness. Prevention is better than cure, and I'm not gonna be the one trying to find a cure, I'm acting on the prevention side.

If 400 people tell you the evidence looks sketchy though then it's safe to say your evidence doesn't prove a cheating offense beyond reasonable doubt. Like it should, per all rules and standards.

Believing this in life will get you killed because that's believing in quantity over quality. If 400 liars speak the same thing against 1 person speaking the truth, does that change the fact that what they said or what they believe is a lie? Nope. All it is is that you have 400 people lying about a person. If I take it on a personal level, the community believes SS is full of hackers, but you among yourselves within SS know the truth. Who's speaking truth? The community or SS? By your logic, the community.



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We see it all the time. A man murders his wife and kids and everything recorded on video tape, only to go into the courtroom to claim innocence on the count that he is mentally unstable.

That's not innocence.

Quote
No because you yourself iterated not trust anyone, so why bring this point up? Situational ethics?

So you are basically admitting that we are right to not trust you with banning 100 + players without providing any proof? That's fair.

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The evidence is there on them, but if publishing the evidences damages the effectiveness, why then publish?

How would it? If it's not based on mere logs but videos, I really don't see a way.

Quote
Believing this in life will get you killed because that's believing in quantity over quality. If 400 liars speak the same thing against 1 person speaking the truth, does that change the fact that what they said or what they believe is a lie? Nope. All it is is that you have 400 people lying about a person. If I take it on a personal level, the community believes SS is full of hackers, but you among yourselves within SS know the truth. Who's speaking truth? The community or SS? By your logic, the community.

Never mind. I don't believe in quantity over quality. There's a difference between believing someone to be a cheater and looking at proof and judging it wrong. If the 400 I mentioned could debunk your arguments then.. why not.

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SpiralRock

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Re: Re: Legend has been kicked from VU.
« Reply #38 on: May 10, 2018, 05:29:49 pm »
ungrateful polak
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Dr.Shawn

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Re: Re: Legend has been kicked from VU.
« Reply #39 on: May 10, 2018, 05:30:08 pm »
Quote
How would it? If it's not based on mere logs but videos, I really don't see a way.
Damn it krys, out of all people you have to be the dumb one.
The key press for F1 was nullified after it was known by everyone else right ?
We even know how it can be nullified. It's as easy as the way we use to caught them.
There is nothing more you will get to know now. It's simple, in time you will know how we did it and all you can do is wait until we find more hackers. Maybe a few SS members as well ?  >:D
That would be interesting,Right ?
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krystianoo

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Re: Re: Legend has been kicked from VU.
« Reply #40 on: May 10, 2018, 06:17:20 pm »
If you are a hacker you know it yourself that you have, why the fuck should I tell you that sir you have used hacks in our server at Friday the 13th last month, we just got evidence and here it is, please look forward to it and tell me if the evidence is enough to ban you.
Thanks in advance we will be waiting for your reply so that we can proceed with the ban.
Sincerely
Administration.

Banning 100 players because they hacked is nothing wrong from my point of view.
Edit : We have evidence for all of the bans.
But if we share the way thought which we caught them then it will be nullified, just like the key press.
And why do you look curious about it krys ? And if we tell the hackers how we caught them, than its only matter of time that everyone will know the method we used.

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Will you start showing your displeasure or start requesting evidence when they ban more than a ¼ of the playercount? More than a ⅓? More than a half?
I guess that would be the perfect timing :D
And why do you worry so much Mr.Nice ?
Every time there is some hacking activity, you always want to get your highlights and showing how nice you are ?

Chill out bro, a liar will never accept that he lied.
Even if we post the proof here, than what is the guarantee that they will accept their crimes ? What if they claim that it's a false proof ?
But I can assure you that they will find an alternative way to bypass our method in some time.

Quote
How would it? If it's not based on mere logs but videos, I really don't see a way.
Damn it krys, out of all people you have to be the dumb one.
The key press for F1 was nullified after it was known by everyone else right ?
We even know how it can be nullified. It's as easy as the way we use to caught them.
There is nothing more you will get to know now. It's simple, in time you will know how we did it and all you can do is wait until we find more hackers. Maybe a few SS members as well ?  >:D
That would be interesting,Right ?


no comment
« Last Edit: May 10, 2018, 06:18:57 pm by krystianoo »
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PunkNoodle

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Re: Re: Legend has been kicked from VU.
« Reply #41 on: May 10, 2018, 06:57:24 pm »


Can we all perhaps take a chill pill and find a compromise that will make everyone, except cheaters perhaps, happy? How bow dah?

In my opinion some evidences should be provided to the public the kind of that WILL NOT compromise whatever it is currently being used to catch the cheaters. After all there's a chance that despite the method not being made public, hack creators will find a way to bypass it regardless. Instead of debating, let's put effort into that.
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ZAiM

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Re: Re: Legend has been kicked from VU.
« Reply #42 on: May 10, 2018, 06:59:55 pm »
Topic Changed From announcement to Discussion  :angel:
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ripmemes

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Re: Re: Legend has been kicked from VU.
« Reply #43 on: May 10, 2018, 08:19:15 pm »
I think that VCMP devs must wake up from their grave thought and make another version of VCMP that would block the hacks scripts. Anti-hack script maybe? I think VCMP project should be restarted all over again with the hope of sync improvement.this should happen as well.
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GangstaRas

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Re: Re: Legend has been kicked from VU.
« Reply #44 on: May 10, 2018, 08:25:23 pm »
Looks like the DDoS attack is over, back to what I was saying.



Quote
We see it all the time. A man murders his wife and kids and everything recorded on video tape, only to go into the courtroom to claim innocence on the count that he is mentally unstable.

That's not innocence.

I am glad we both acknowledged that my example showed no innocence, that's still a guilty man which meant the trial was nothing but a waste of everyone's time, because the undeniable truth is there. Similarly, why waste time showing the proof to the guilty just to have a needless debate? It isn't a revolt to the ban appeal system mind you, but as explained exhaustingly now, we will keep things anonymous for the method's sake. Nobody is dying not knowing, and nobody can prove themself innocent even if they tried, therefore no right to knowledge will be given.

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So you are basically admitting that we are right to not trust you with banning 100 + players without providing any proof? That's fair.

That is fair but the thing is, I was never trying to earn the trust of anyone except in one spot, and that is that I'm handling the case. I care not to display that I'm trustworthy with handling the case, I leave that to my reputation. If my reputation isn't enough, then tough luck, can't satisfy everyone.

All I'm doing is cleaning up this mess and ensuring a hacker-free community for us one permaban at a time. If you believe in my judgement then you shouldn't question my methods that led to such judgement. I am not avoiding a debunking argument or have anything against appeals once more, but as it's explained, nobody can prove their innocence with this, so discussion is unnecessary for 1 and more importantly 2, discussion will disclose the method meaning we'll have to find another cure for hacks.

You seem to want to promote damage to the method in the name of transparency, not me. I rather ban everyone hacking with an iron fist and drive fear into the people, because this is how toxic the community have gotten. Until the devs do something, this is how it's going to be. Everyone's hacking cuz they feel no one can do anything about it, their true selves rise above the surface. With the help of some trusted individuals these couple of months, I'm shitting all over that parade.
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