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Author Topic: Banathon 2k18  (Read 6523 times)

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krystianoo

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Re: Re: Legend has been kicked from VU.
« Reply #45 on: May 10, 2018, 08:40:04 pm »
Looks like the DDoS attack is over, back to what I was saying.



Quote
We see it all the time. A man murders his wife and kids and everything recorded on video tape, only to go into the courtroom to claim innocence on the count that he is mentally unstable.

That's not innocence.

I am glad we both acknowledged that my example showed no innocence, that's still a guilty man which meant the trial was nothing but a waste of everyone's time, because the undeniable truth is there. Similarly, why waste time showing the proof to the guilty just to have a needless debate? It isn't a revolt to the ban appeal system mind you, but as explained exhaustingly now, we will keep things anonymous for the method's sake. Nobody is dying not knowing, and nobody can prove themself innocent even if they tried, therefore no right to knowledge will be given.

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So you are basically admitting that we are right to not trust you with banning 100 + players without providing any proof? That's fair.

That is fair but the thing is, I was never trying to earn the trust of anyone except in one spot, and that is that I'm handling the case. I care not to display that I'm trustworthy with handling the case, I leave that to my reputation. If my reputation isn't enough, then tough luck, can't satisfy everyone.

All I'm doing is cleaning up this mess and ensuring a hacker-free community for us one permaban at a time. If you believe in my judgement then you shouldn't question my methods that led to such judgement. I am not avoiding a debunking argument or have anything against appeals once more, but as it's explained, nobody can prove their innocence with this, so discussion is unnecessary for 1 and more importantly 2, discussion will disclose the method meaning we'll have to find another cure for hacks.

You seem to want to promote damage to the method in the name of transparency, not me. I rather ban everyone hacking with an iron fist and drive fear into the people, because this is how toxic the community have gotten. Until the devs do something, this is how it's going to be. Everyone's hacking cuz they feel no one can do anything about it, their true selves rise above the surface. With the help of some trusted individuals these couple of months, I'm shitting all over that parade.

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Nobody is dying not knowing, and nobody can prove themself innocent even if they tried, therefore no right to knowledge will be given.

Your reply is centered around this. The obvious questions arise:

How can you be so sure of this?

How can you be certain that no innocents have been caught?

How can we be certain that such evidence exists, is not fabricated, is not made up and you're not banning inconvenient players in part?

E: I don't believe you are making this up, however believing everything Uncle Ras or Grandpa Chutton says is dumb and irresponsible. Sure, you have a high reputation in the community. But that shouldn't give anyone a pass to run around and ban people with evidence that may or may not exist.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2018, 08:43:33 pm by krystianoo »
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GangstaRas

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Re: Re: Legend has been kicked from VU.
« Reply #46 on: May 10, 2018, 09:16:46 pm »
Looks like the DDoS attack is over, back to what I was saying.



Quote
We see it all the time. A man murders his wife and kids and everything recorded on video tape, only to go into the courtroom to claim innocence on the count that he is mentally unstable.

That's not innocence.

I am glad we both acknowledged that my example showed no innocence, that's still a guilty man which meant the trial was nothing but a waste of everyone's time, because the undeniable truth is there. Similarly, why waste time showing the proof to the guilty just to have a needless debate? It isn't a revolt to the ban appeal system mind you, but as explained exhaustingly now, we will keep things anonymous for the method's sake. Nobody is dying not knowing, and nobody can prove themself innocent even if they tried, therefore no right to knowledge will be given.

Quote
So you are basically admitting that we are right to not trust you with banning 100 + players without providing any proof? That's fair.

That is fair but the thing is, I was never trying to earn the trust of anyone except in one spot, and that is that I'm handling the case. I care not to display that I'm trustworthy with handling the case, I leave that to my reputation. If my reputation isn't enough, then tough luck, can't satisfy everyone.

All I'm doing is cleaning up this mess and ensuring a hacker-free community for us one permaban at a time. If you believe in my judgement then you shouldn't question my methods that led to such judgement. I am not avoiding a debunking argument or have anything against appeals once more, but as it's explained, nobody can prove their innocence with this, so discussion is unnecessary for 1 and more importantly 2, discussion will disclose the method meaning we'll have to find another cure for hacks.

You seem to want to promote damage to the method in the name of transparency, not me. I rather ban everyone hacking with an iron fist and drive fear into the people, because this is how toxic the community have gotten. Until the devs do something, this is how it's going to be. Everyone's hacking cuz they feel no one can do anything about it, their true selves rise above the surface. With the help of some trusted individuals these couple of months, I'm shitting all over that parade.

Quote
Nobody is dying not knowing, and nobody can prove themself innocent even if they tried, therefore no right to knowledge will be given.

Your reply is centered around this. The obvious questions arise:

How can you be so sure of this?

How can you be certain that no innocents have been caught?

How can we be certain that such evidence exists, is not fabricated, is not made up and you're not banning inconvenient players in part?

E: I don't believe you are making this up, however believing everything Uncle Ras or Grandpa Chutton says is dumb and irresponsible. Sure, you have a high reputation in the community. But that shouldn't give anyone a pass to run around and ban people with evidence that may or may not exist.

The merit of all my work put in thus far and the fruit of my labour will be expressed in its fullest July 7th. The bans will be before this date but July 7 will be full effect of the appreciation.

No mistaken innocents I can assure you that; the error will likely be the other way, people on my watchlist that I gave a chance cuz evidence wasn't as conclusive as I'd like, so I err on the side of caution. They can also be people that I missed, that just flew under my radar or showed no hacking propensities until later in the future. They are the only people that can technically still slip through but I've prepped for that too. The hacking epidemic is coming to an end.
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Milko

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Re: Re: Legend has been kicked from VU.
« Reply #47 on: May 10, 2018, 09:56:15 pm »
Holy shit he really was using aimbot and other people defended him like a fort.
@Shawn, it is true that there is 1 (at least) aim cheater in SS, but that don't mean all of them are. ;D
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koray

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Re: Re: Legend has been kicked from VU.
« Reply #48 on: May 10, 2018, 11:20:10 pm »
The conclusion that I get from Krystianoo is that whoever takes the responsibility over this action(devs included), It still might not be the best idea to just leave it to the people that has to take decisions for this with no given evidence or examination methods. I can agree to this part. Its always open to dabate for trusting anyone's administration experience. Because everyone have a different glimpse of what they see before them even though they agree in the end for a specific reason.

But then you should realize that it's a community driven game mod. None of these developers work at Rockstar Games. They're just trusted people to run things.Push updates etc. Same for admins. They have to be trusted to take these decisions and move on. As I said, administration experience for everyone is always open to discussion. But someone has to do it if this will take the community anywhere better. Later on, you see the results and make another discussion if it's necessary.Interrupting an attempt to solution with "if"s and "what about"s is just waste of the time. What Gangsta does with these evidences is reasonable.

Good luck with your work Gangsta.
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Saim

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Re: Re: Legend has been kicked from VU.
« Reply #49 on: May 11, 2018, 03:28:01 am »
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mairee

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Re: Re: Legend has been kicked from VU.
« Reply #50 on: May 11, 2018, 09:24:53 am »
I think that VCMP devs must wake up from their grave thought and make another version of VCMP that would block the hacks scripts. Anti-hack script maybe? I think VCMP project should be restarted all over again with the hope of sync improvement.this should happen as well.
Useless. VCMP developers have studies to take care of and making another version of vcmp will take too much time. And you just need to change a few lines to get the hack work again with vcmp.
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morphine

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Re: Re: Legend has been kicked from VU.
« Reply #51 on: May 11, 2018, 10:42:04 am »
these past 7 pages have been a

waste of time



pretty fucking strange coming from the hypebeast himself so yeah that's saying something for sure
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Dr.Shawn

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Re: Re: Legend has been kicked from VU.
« Reply #52 on: May 11, 2018, 11:48:18 am »
@Shawn, it is true that there is 1 (at least) aim cheater in SS, but that don't mean all of them are. ;D
Yes, more than one tho'
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koray

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Re: Re: Legend has been kicked from VU.
« Reply #53 on: May 11, 2018, 12:19:41 pm »
these past 7 pages have been a

waste of time



pretty fucking strange coming from the hypebeast himself so yeah that's saying something for sure

Unlike you,Im not being irreverent to the discussion of 7 pages finding someone's statements and twisting them into something for my fun.I had to say 197 words.You pick 3.That phrase "waste of time" hints to any further discussion about hacks because I think it's unnecessary at this point and also time will tell. Of course Im coming from the hypebeast for merely stating an opinion here. And you are not picky to take things out of context ;)
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morphine

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Re: Re: Legend has been kicked from VU.
« Reply #54 on: May 11, 2018, 02:21:54 pm »
I was referring to myself as the hypebeast... you're the one taking things out of context here

the only reason I quoted you was for aesthetic purposes

Other than that, my post has LITERALLY NOTHING to do with you

have a good day


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Milko

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Re: Re: Legend has been kicked from VU.
« Reply #55 on: May 11, 2018, 04:12:13 pm »
Alright so who's getting kicked tomorrow?
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Strykerz.

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Re: Re: Legend has been kicked from VU.
« Reply #56 on: May 11, 2018, 07:35:38 pm »
Banned- Don't post someone's real life pictures another time- Siezer
« Last Edit: May 11, 2018, 07:40:20 pm by Siezer »
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Siezer

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Re: Re: Legend has been kicked from VU.
« Reply #57 on: May 11, 2018, 07:53:13 pm »
This topic will be locked. The major information and enlightenment has been shared with the community. With the provision that, if someone take a fancy to debate further about "EVIDENCES" subject, a new topic can be commenced in OFF-topics.
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Charley

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Re: Banathon 2k18
« Reply #58 on: May 15, 2018, 04:31:22 am »
Can we all perhaps take a chill pill and find a compromise that will make everyone, except cheaters perhaps, happy? How bow dah?

Yes! Let's do that, and look at it concisely. Here's the conflict. I'm gonna call Gangsta and the peeps on his side A. And Krys and the people on his side B.

A: We're going to ban a bunch of cheaters, based on plentiful evidence, but we can't reveal that evidence otherwise cheaters could find a workaround to our detection method.

B: You can't ban a shitload of players without providing the public some evidence. That is a fucked up form of justice.

A: Trust me, or don't trust me, we're doing it.

B: It's not about trusting you personally, it's about trusting anyone's sole proclamation of evidence, without their revealing it. One person's authority is not sufficient to take this kind of huge action. It sets a very dangerous precedent, because while it may be  you with the banhammer today, it will be someone else tomorrow, and you can't guarantee that they will be as trustworthy as you.

So, the evidence can't be revealed, but Gangsta as a single person cannot be the judge, jury and executioner. Here's where the compromise lies. Do not reveal the evidence. But, those who have seen the evidence, have seen the detection method and can vouch for its authenticity, need to say so. If we have something like five or more people who have different affiliations in the community (not all VUs), who can vouch for the evidence, then perhaps a sense of justice closer to what B has in mind can be established, while not sacrificing the methods developed by A.

So, to those who have seen the evidence, and can vouch for the detection method, please post either this or something like it in this thread:

Quote
I have seen the banathon 2k18 evidence, and the detection method, and can vouch for its accuracy. The bans that will be meted out because of the evidence, to the best of my knowledge, are just and can be trusted.

<name>

Sound good?
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SuriAttacker

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Re: Banathon 2k18
« Reply #59 on: May 15, 2018, 05:54:22 am »
@Charley, my apologies for not doing this in the correct way due to not able to find enough time to write this post with the details which are required on your request, so I'll keep it simple for now.

As an admin of Littlewhiteys I'm facing daily with reports of aimlockers, something that is very common in the VC-MP community nowadays. Trust me, it isn't an easy thing to detect by spectating or by recording it and reviewing it and draw to a conclusion straight away, it requires alot of time to analyse and come to a conclusion whether to take action or not, also it can be easily mistaken. Now, players that have been banned on Littlewhiteys based on solid evidence for the usage of aimlock were detected on other servers by this "detection method" for the usage of aimlock, so what I am trying to say here is that the detection method is accurate enough to detect certain cheats, but I'm afraid not all cheats, in other words I wouldn't guarantee you that the detection method might give out valid results on other cheats/hacks the way it works.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2018, 06:01:03 am by SuriAttacker »
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